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Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset
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03/07/2014 19:41
macphgw 
03/07/2014 19:41
macphgw 
Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

I've had dupuytren's for about 45 years, multiple surgeries, amputation, etc.

My wife (in her mid 60's) had never had it until recently. She had a bacterial infection in the small intestine that failed to clear up with several courses of antibiotics. A specialist put her on an extended course of ciprofloxacin along with high end probiotics. This got rid of the infection, but she then started having chronic fatigue type symptoms, which apparently may have an assoication with ciprofloxacin. But she also developed multiple dupuytren's nodules on both hands, despite the fact that she was taking NAC (500 mg) the whole time (because I was taking it in the hope that it would retard my own dupuytren's).

It may just be a coincidence. Her mother (now in her 90's) has had dupuytren's since she was middle aged. But none of her 4 siblings has shown any signs, and neither had she until the ciprofloxacin.

Any thoughts?

03/07/2014 20:56
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

03/07/2014 20:56
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

There is a hypotheses that a genetic predisposition to DD, which your wife may have, does not lead to the disease until some other unknown factor changes things. Ciprofloxacin is not the only change to your wife's stasis during this time, and I wonder why you single that out? Interesting thanks for sharing.

03/08/2014 02:27
macphgw 
03/08/2014 02:27
macphgw 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

Good question.

Lousy answer:

1) the most recent major health issue she had before getting the nodules was the intestinal infection, for which she took the ciprofloxacin;

2) taking the ciprofloxacin was followed by the chronic fatigue symptoms, which one of her doctors thinks may be linked to liver damage/weakness and which others have reported after taking ciprofloxacin;

3) internet links led us to ordering glutathione reduced, which I read had helped somebody(s) with similar fatigue problems after taking ciprofloxcin, on the hypothesis that it helped improve liver function;

4) I then read that gluatathione was poorly absorbed and NAC was suggested as a better way to raise glutathione levels;

5) I already knew that there was some opinion that NAC might be of use in stalling dupuytren's.

So because of the connections: ciprofloxacin -> liver (mirroring alcohol -> liver) and glutathione and liver and NAC and glutathione, the idea came to me that perhaps the ciprofloxacin had triggered the sudden and fairly rapid onset of of the duputyren's (4 nodules in disparate locations - 3 on non-dominant hand and 1 on dominant hand).

03/23/2014 17:55
chase 
03/23/2014 17:55
chase 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

I had rapid-onset ledderhose in both feet immediately after a 12-week course of Cipro in 2008. I had mild dupuytrens in one hand before then, but it was static. I now have rapidly progressing fibromas in both hands and both feet, and also ongoing frozen shoulder on one side. Yes it is anecdotal, but I blame Cipro. One possible link is that Cipro disrupts gut flora in ways that can be permanent. For example, it kills oxalobacter formigenes, leading to increased oxalate absorption and potential problems with calcium deposition. (Documentation is easy to find on the web.) I feel certain that the long-term side effects of Cipro need more study. I would like to know about other cases similar to ours.

03/23/2014 18:27
macphgw 
03/23/2014 18:27
macphgw 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

Thanks. Your remarks are interesting, especially on the gut connection.

My wife also developed fatigue problems immediately after doing the extended Cipro thing: 2 weeks at full dose and then a taper off period following that. She had taken it (and a couple of other antibiotics) in the previous months, but they had failed to knock out the aeromonas caviae bacteria that had been causing her intestinal problems. The extended Cipro apparently did knock out the aeromonas, but despite the fact that she had been taking VSL#3 (expensive probiotics consisting mostly of lacto and bifida strains), we're thinking that her intestinal ecology got messed up.

It's also interesting that a number of people on this forum have expressed the opinion that NAC helps with dupuytren's. NAC appears to be a biofilm degrader and is one of the things suggested on gut sites for breaking up unhealthy biofilm in the gut.

I'll follow up on your reference to oxalobacter formigenes.

Thanks again for replying.

04/30/2014 17:28
bruceba 
04/30/2014 17:28
bruceba 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

chase:
I had rapid-onset ledderhose in both feet immediately after a 12-week course of Cipro in 2008. I had mild dupuytrens in one hand before then, but it was static. I now have rapidly progressing fibromas in both hands and both feet, and also ongoing frozen shoulder on one side. Yes it is anecdotal, but I blame Cipro. One possible link is that Cipro disrupts gut flora in ways that can be permanent. For example, it kills oxalobacter formigenes, leading to increased oxalate absorption and potential problems with calcium deposition. (Documentation is easy to find on the web.) I feel certain that the long-term side effects of Cipro need more study. I would like to know about other cases similar to ours.
I had high-dose cipro for one month. I developed dup and ledderhose after taking that med. I had tendon problems also aterwards. Maybe a coincidence maybe not.

09/22/2015 14:52
1544Charlie 
09/22/2015 14:52
1544Charlie 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

Four weeks ago I took a two week course of Cipro and Doxi for a prostate infection. One week in I developed a nodule on my left hand. Yesterday it was diagnosed as a disease I'd never heard of, Dupuytren's. I don't know if there is a connection but it seems worth sharing. I know of no history of the disease in my family but obviously the gene is there.

As an avid finger style guitarist Godard with classical and jazz training the disease is sobering to look at. I share this just to say my first symptom appeared a week into using Cipro.

09/23/2015 01:30
JohnG 
09/23/2015 01:30
JohnG 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

Welcome to the forum, Charlie.

09/23/2015 14:40
macphgw 
09/23/2015 14:40
macphgw 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

Hopefully, your dupuyrtren's will progress slowly. I've had it for about 4o years and my left index finger is now bent at an almost 90 degree angle despite 3 needle procedures (only the first one worked) and a fasciectomy. I can still play the guitar somewhat: can't play bar chords at all, have difficulty with c maj in open position, and can't play a lot of jazz type chords that I used to be able to play. Can still play single note lines.

My wife's dupuytren's, which started following Ciprofloxacin has continued to progress. She has many nodules on both hands, but fortunately no contracted fingers so far. She's taken NAC since it started and now is trying ultrasound with a consumer ultrasound device.

09/23/2015 16:52
1544Charlie 
09/23/2015 16:52
1544Charlie 
Re: Anecdotal: Ciprofolxacin, NAC, dupuytren's onset

Thanks. You guys know anything about radiation? This is just the beginning for me but I want to be proactive.

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