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Can knitting make DC worse?
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03/21/2008 20:27
JKDay

not registered

03/21/2008 20:27
JKDay

not registered

Can knitting make DC worse?

I was diagonosed about a year ago with one nodule in my right hand. I am 64 yo, female. Two sisters also have DC. both my hands are full of cords and my right hand is getting stiff and tender. I have been knitting alot this past year. Could that cause the DC to be aggresive? I have no contracture right now but the base of one finger is getting very firm and tender if I press on it. Thanks for any help!

03/22/2008 10:18
Wolfgang

not registered

03/22/2008 10:18
Wolfgang

not registered

Re: Can knitting make DC worse?

Not sure about knitting. Generally any manual occupation that does damage to the skin, even slight damage (like beating drums or climbing) might foster Dupuytren's. Knitting sounds safe to me but you probably can tell better whether it stresses your hand's skin.

Wolfgang

03/22/2008 23:30
jim_h 
03/22/2008 23:30
jim_h 
Re: Can knitting make DC worse?

I actually don't think that anything you do - or don't do - with your hands affects the progression of Dupuytren's. There is some evidence that serious trauma may bring it on, but even that is doubtful in my opinion. It's really a common condition with an unpredictable course. Go ahead and knit and don't worry about it.


03/23/2008 07:18
Wolfgang

not registered

03/23/2008 07:18
Wolfgang

not registered

Re: Can knitting make DC worse?

Hi Jim, for many years the common opinion was that the job or occupation doesn't have an effect. Statistics showed that clecks get Dupuytren's about as frequently as manual workers. That picture has changed somewhat over the last years. When details of the manual job and the outside job activities on the non-manual workers were taken into account it showed that physical stress has a significant effect on the onset of Dupuytren's. Personally I believe that what people with Dupuytren's inherit is a weakness in the palm's skin (and probably elsewhere but the palm is exposed to physical stress) and this, specifically if the skin is exposed to frequent damage, can result in inflammations and eventually a benign tumor. If you are interested in research you might have a look at the most recent publications listed on http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr...ure_trauma.html .

Wolfgang

03/23/2008 20:21
jim_h 
03/23/2008 20:21
jim_h 
Re: Can knitting make DC worse?

Wolfgan, I believe there could be a link with occupations that actually damage tissue, for example operating a pneumatic hammer or playing the conga drums. Surgery or injury may trigger DC by initiating scarrring. But I doubt that any normal activities affect the progress of DC.

I also have Lederhose, and when I noticed a lump in one arch about 10 years ago, I was worried because it can become disabling. I read many posts advising seriously limiting running, walking and other activities on the theory that impact accellerates the progression. I decided to ignore those warnings and continued running and walking - quite a bit, actually. There has been little change in that lump in 10 years and it causes me no trouble.

So, I remain unconvinced that any normal activities have an effect on DC. I have serious, early-onset DC in both hands, and my hands have never received any serious trauma.



03/25/2008 00:21
Randy_H 
03/25/2008 00:21
Randy_H 

Re: Can knitting make DC worse?

Jim_h,

I have read too many testimonies about people's hand trauma coinciding with Dups onset to ignore the connection. While it often appears with no trauma at all, as in your case, I also have no doubt that my short (and deadly) few months on the hand drums did me in. Now, mind you, my hands were quite red and they hurt after playing. The vibration literally caused my fingernails to cut into adjacent fingers. That's the kind of trauma I'm talking about, not knitting or "normal" activities. So I guess we agree.

After my experience I make sure I don't slap my hands around. I've got to be *really* impressed before I'll stand and applaud for five minuets :-) At the same time I don't worry about normal working with my hands at all. Just the rough stuff.

03/25/2008 07:26
Wolfgang

not registered

03/25/2008 07:26
Wolfgang

not registered

Dupuytren - the initiating stage

Hi Jim, I am far from being sure about what damage has what effect. Here are some thoughts (just ideas):

- the onset of Dupuytren's is certainly earlier than the first visible nodules. But nodules are the first thing what concerns patients, so typically doctors see patients not in earlier stages and the very first phase where Dupuytren's starts is thus difficult to research and hardly researched. I know only of one paper where the skin outside and away from nodules was analyzed and it turned out that the seemingly healthy skin was also exhibiting myofibroblasts, quite different from skin of healthy people. That seems to indicate that the disease starts in a much larger area than the nodule (which might explain the low recurrence rate of dermofaciectomy). The nodule is actually a follow-up stage where a tumor starts to grow in the diseased skin. This initial disease might (!) be fostered by damage of the tissue below the skin although the damage has no macroscopic, visible effect. But that's just speculation.

- some authors speculate that the fact that men get Dupuytren's on an avarage 10 - 20 years earlier than women is due to occupation, not due to biological gender difference. Actually that seems to be the current understanding, though that's no proof really.

- skin damage due to occupation might explain why Dupuytren's is more frequent than Ledderhose. To me that would sound resonable.

- I think we all agree that one can get Dupuytren's without damage. But maybe that means without visible damage and what we really inherit is a too sensible sub-skin tissue where micro-arteria often break and need to get repaired. That process eventually over-shoots, maybe driven by additional oxidative stress (also inherited, so it might require a combination). In this process an increasing amount of myofibroblasts exists in the sub-cutaneous tissue and eventually congregates into a nodule.

What does that mean in daily life? Treat your hands well, avoid damage, avoid very heavy use, avoid medium&frequent stress but keep using your hands and feet. Not using them would be silly and unhealthy. My guess would be that knitting is OK but I don't know much about knitting ...

Wolfgang

Quote:


... I also have Lederhose, and when I noticed a lump in one arch about 10 years ago, I was worried because it can become disabling. I read many posts advising seriously limiting running, walking and other activities on the theory that impact accellerates the progression. I decided to ignore those warnings and continued running and walking - quite a bit, actually. There has been little change in that lump in 10 years and it causes me no trouble.

So, I remain unconvinced that any normal activities have an effect on DC. I have serious, early-onset DC in both hands, and my hands have never received any serious trauma.




Edited at 03/25/08 19:17

03/29/2008 17:16
jvadcock 
03/29/2008 17:16
jvadcock 
Re: Can knitting make DC worse?

What is the opinion of effects of golf and exercise machines? Both seem to effect my DC.

04/08/2008 19:11
Issleib 
04/08/2008 19:11
Issleib 
Re: Can knitting make DC worse?

I do know knitting. It is repetative but gentle. I continue with all my needlework.

Colleen

04/10/2008 00:41
jim_h 
04/10/2008 00:41
jim_h 
not enough evidence

Wach, when you look at it in the hard light of day, there is so little scientific evidence here.

It might be that life as a couch potato helps avoid Lederhose. On the other hand, the evidence that running greatly improves physical and mental health is overwhelming. I recall that at one point a few years ago, that Lederhose nodule hurt a bit when I ran. I kept running, and eventually it stopped hurting. I had bursitis in a hip, 20 years ago - it hurt. That's history too.

I agree that if you have Dupuytren's, don't make a career out of doing heavy rough stuff with your hands. I don't think the evidence, at this time, warrants much more caution than that. New research into scarring and wound healing will eventually tell us what's really going on.

I can't imagine that knitting, for example, leads to Dupuytren's. But even if it did - there is good evidence that knitting, - and activiities like it that engage the hand, eye and brain - benefit the mind and prevent senility and dementia. Nothing could be more important.

The purpose of life isn't to die with your body untouched and undamaged. Yes Dupuytren's is a problem - but other problems will come along to join it, and distract from it, all too soon. We have to keep moving, keep living, and not give up easily out of fear of pain or damage.



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