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Tried NA ....ready for surgery
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03/16/2009 04:00
callie 
03/16/2009 04:00
callie 
Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

Also, it is important not to wait too long befor doing surgery. If the NA doesn't work, get to the surgery soon. Waiting on the surgery until significant contracture takes place, creates a more difficult surgery.

Edited 03/16/09 06:01

03/20/2009 01:47
GeorgeB 
03/20/2009 01:47
GeorgeB 
Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

Please see my experience 5 Years ago - no recurrance !

Go to : http://www.angelfire.com/rings/dupuytrens/

03/20/2009 04:32
5Dman 
03/20/2009 04:32
5Dman 
Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

Hi! I am familiar with Dr. Hildreth. I am a 54 year old male, live in Houston and recently (4 months ago) noticed a Dupuytren's nodule in my right hand. After being told by my orthopedic sports doctor that it was Dupuytrens , that t was uncurable and there was nothing to do until it contracted and then would require surgery, I mildly freaked out and got on the internet to do some research. I ran across and communicated via email and phone with several doctors doing NA including Dr. David Kline in Boise, Idaho who was trained in Paris as well as Dr. Keith Denkler in Larkspur, CA and, of course, Dr. Charles Eaton in Jupiter, FL. All were VERY helpful and recommended I check out Dr. Hildreth, who is a hand surgeon in Houston. I met with Dr. Hidlreth this week (Mar 18) and learned that he was trained in NA by Dr. Eaton over a year ago and has done a good number of NA's since. He was very knowledgeable and supportive and also acknowledged Dr. Eaton as the best in the U.S for the NA procedure because of his extensive experience. He did not rush me at all, spending over 40 minutes with me, answering questions, discussing the latest research and in general being very helpful and reassuring. Given that I am in the early stage and not yet contracting although cords have begun forming, Dr. Hildreth administered the first in what will apparently be a series of steroid injections which I hope will slow the progress of the disease. An interesting side note is that Dr. Hildreth himself has a Dupuyrten's nodule in his hand himself which may account for his interest and empathy for his patients with the same disease. While he didn't offer any cure , I felt that he was a welcome partner in addressing my disease. Hope this helps!

03/20/2009 19:19
Randy_H 
03/20/2009 19:19
Randy_H 

Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

5Dman

It's great that Hidlreth believe in the use of cortisone injections to slow Dups progression. It softens the nodules and reduces pain as well. I had Kline do this for me. Great results. Take his advice.

What I find so interesting is that CHS who only do Open Surgery are generally not interested in cortisone. It's the MD's who do NA that realize the benefit. When I see an obvious correlation like this I always wonder *why?*. My guess is that the Docs that are open enough to see the benefit of NA are also the same type of people who will be open to other proven options as well. The "Surgery Only" crowd is so deep in their rut that they can't see out. Fortunately our great American NA Hero docs are making an impact on their profession, and have I ever benefited from this. I'm more: "Tried Surgery, ready for NA and Cortisone" :-)

03/21/2009 11:16
brian123

not registered

03/21/2009 11:16
brian123

not registered

Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

AS I HAVE SAID....OS DOCS SHOULD BE SUED.THEY KNOW THAT 5 YEARS FROM NOW OS WILL BE A THING OF THE PAST AND N.A. ALONG WITH XIAFLEX WILL BE THE STANDARD, HOPE THEY HAVE GOOD ANSWERS FOR RIPPING ALL THOSE HANDS OPEN NEEDLESSLY !

03/23/2009 11:44
Mike

not registered

03/23/2009 11:44
Mike

not registered

Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

Brian open surgery does have a variety of uses over NA.

For example if the contracture is extreme OS may be the only effective option available.

Also OS in general has a slower re-occurance rate.

Now while your right that some doctors give bad advise regarding NA this does not mean you should condemn OS as a whole as both methods have there uses.

I just had OS at the end of January and am very happy with the results and thought it was the right thing to do at the time. I may opt for a different procedure when it comes back but when that happens if they where to entirely discount OS it would be just as much a error as discounting NA now

03/23/2009 12:11
brian 123

not registered

03/23/2009 12:11
brian 123

not registered

Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

Good points...what I meant was Docs that ONLY do o.s. and do not want to learn or encourage people to explore n.a. etc. are GREEDY and should be sued.
I know ..I encounted 3 such docs that fit the bill !

03/24/2009 16:46
Randy_H 
03/24/2009 16:46
Randy_H 

Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

Brian,

I can see how personal greed could be attributed to CHS who only do OS. However, some years ago I demonstrated on this and the previous site that OS carries with it considerable costs and time, whereas NA has neither. At $700 for a simple in-office procedure, those doing NA are not particularly short changing themselves.

Will using XIAFLEX be more profitable than doing NA? I doubt it. The bulk of the cost will be for the product itself. Even so, most CHS are looking forward to using XIAFLEX. They know they need an option to OS and will jump at it. By your accounting they will be cutting their own financial throats. I think not.

I believe the fundamental reason for resistance to NA is lazy ignorance and fear. They still don't trust a "blind procedure" where they can't see what they are doing and must rely on the patient to avoid citing a nerve. They'd rather rely on *themselves* and cut you open than rely on the patient. Also, it is generally assumed (wrongly) that the recurrence levels from NA are unacceptable. That is how they were all trained in med school. NA has yet to be taught.

I've interviewed Eaton, Gary Press and Denkler about this and other NA issues. None even hint at greed amongst their fellows. NA docs are swimming against current medical opinion and have very little motivation to do so. That is not to say that at some level some "OS only" CHS aren't acting out of some kind of financial protectionism. However, at $700 a pop for NA (so to speak) they need not.

03/25/2009 18:19
bstenman 
03/25/2009 18:19
bstenman 
Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

I have had XRT and NA on both hands and now believe my best hope long term is for the release of collegenase to the public once it has FDA approval, and more important, when production volumes can be produced.

I had the XRT and Na performed after meeting with one of the top certified hand surgeons in the USA who also teaches at Stanford Medical. He told me nothing about the probable complications from the open hand surgery and downplayed the possible 6-12 months of rehabilitation to regain full use of my hands.

Dr. Denkler who performs both NA and fasciectomies strongly recommends that surgeons not use a tourniquet for the 90 minute procedure as this is the primary cause of the lengthy recovery and long term and sometime permanent paralysis with blood starved muscles and nerve cells. Dr. Denkler has studied over 4000 surgeries where an arterial clamp was used instead and believes it to be a far less risky approach for the patient. If I was going to undertake the procedure I would definitely find an experienced Dupuytren's surgeon that would use an arterial clamp instead of a tourniquet during the operation.

A friend with a degenerative condition with his spine was told by a surgeon to wait as long as possible as the technology improves and with it the results are better and the risks are reduced. I believe that the same philosophy should be used with regard to Dupuytren's treatment procedures. At this point in time the lowest risks are associated with XRT and NA and the greatest risks with fasciectomy and the research indicates that even with a fasciectomy there is a strong possibility of the disease continuing to progress.

03/26/2009 03:42
Megan 
03/26/2009 03:42
Megan 
Re: Tried NA ....ready for surgery

Quote:




"What I find so interesting is that CHS who only do Open Surgery are generally not interested in cortisone."

Hi Randy,

That was my experience completely. When I first noticed my nodule, I went to my dermatologist, who told me I needed to see a CHS, so I dutifully went to see Dr. "X." Dr. "X" gave me the usual "wait until you contract and then we'll slice..." He told me there was nothing I could do in the interim. I was concerned because my nodule was very tender and in the middle of my hand, making tasks like sweeping the floor uncomfortable (which I told Dr. "X".) Fortunately, I got on this website, saw Dr. Kline, etc. The ironic part of my story is that several weeks after receiving an injection from Dr. Kline (which helped A LOT), I had an annual exam with my General Practitioner and I told her that I'd gone to Boise to see a specialist. She said to me, "oh, we would have sent you over to Dr. "X" for cortisone injections...I refer a lot of patients to him." In other words, Dr. "X" obviously gives cortisone injections when patients are referred to him, but never mentioned them as a possiblity to me. I wrote a letter asking him why he hadn't informed me about cortisone and he sent a letter back saying that there is nothing in the medical literature that suggests that cortisone has a beneficial effect on Dupuytren's nodules. I then made copies of several medical papers and sent them off to him. Can you tell I still get steamed up thinking about this?
Megan L (Bellevue, WA, USA)


Edited 03/26/09 05:52

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