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POST OP
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05/02/2007 06:31
meeg1972

not registered

05/02/2007 06:31
meeg1972

not registered

Re: POST OP

crabby? yes, nothing to do with DC though. hope all works out with everyone's DC. come clean though? don't even remember who posted that one..-whomever it was though...sure...meet ya under the Washington Monument at 3:00 (CLUE!) Should I bring my knife or is it a fist fight? the latter is probably not a good idea though......given our manual issues. Peace Randy H. and all...really do hope all hands are well! hope everyone out there does whatever works for THEM!-megan

05/02/2007 08:04
craggy 
05/02/2007 08:04
craggy 
Re: POST OP

So! I wasn't far wrong in my thinking, after all! Megan stirred the pot a little, and got the bees a-buzzing. Perhaps she reckons there's not much humour on this forum. It's all a bit serious, and doleful, and people want to tell their terrible (and some are) tales, and share their slow recoveries, and on-and-on ...

So - I'm off for a couple of week's climbing (while I still can - it probably does the DC no good, but who knows) on a great little Greek island, so, I'm afraid, the Washington Monument at 3.00 is impossible at the mo.

Vikings were certainly into long-distance sailing, but not rock-climbing, which was, like many other leisure activities, a Victorian invention (Napes Needle, Lake District UK, climbed by Haskett-Smith 188?) I'm sure the Norwegians do a bit.

Not so much trauma associated with climbing (unless you fall, but still try clinging on - that doesn't do hands/arms/shoulders much good) but trauma certainly seems to affect DC. My sister had her little finger straightened fine, broke her wrist, and after the plaster came off found that finger back to 90deg again

Cheers R

05/02/2007 15:20
bstenman 
05/02/2007 15:20
bstenman 
Re: POST OP

Regarding injury and DC, I spoke with Dr. Seegenschmiedt about it last week and he mentioned that a theory regarding DC is that it is an over response of the natural cellular defenses as with an auto immune disease. If that is the case than anything that would trigger the body to deal with a cell injury (infection or mechanical as with surgery) could trigger the DC.

One of the benefits that has been known for a long time is that radiotherapy can greatly reduce scarring which is another type of over response of the skin tissue to injury.

As the average life expectancy for a Western European or Scandinavian at the time the Vikings were actively spreading their seed was around 30 years, I doubt very many made it to the age when DC would be present itself.

I would expect if this line of reasoning is correct that any activity that caused a large amount of skin cell damage, including sunburn, could trigger the bodies cellular defenses and trigger NA. Climbing in the cold and having frostbite or sunburn would be more of a concern than just climbing in and of itself. I for one am not sure if I would want to be belayed by someone with DC problems.

Cheers,
Bruce

05/02/2007 19:31
Sandie1141 
05/02/2007 19:31
Sandie1141 
Re: POST OP



Hi all, My husband, Randy, has had DU for approx. 4 years. Up until now he has refused to admit that he has a problem. Now that he can't hold my hand, shake hands, put on gloves, etc. he is willing to address the problem. He has a lot of the contributing factors that are being studied. He is Irish, he smokes, drinks, and has used a hand drill at work daily for over 15 years. He has gone through a very stressful few years. He lost his father, only brother, step-mom and uncle within a 2 year period. Not to mention we have 2 children and live 1 mile from Columbine High School. I think he just doesn't want to deal with another problem.

His primary care physician, referred him to a hand surgeon. The surgeon only mentioned the enzyme treatment as an alternative to the surgery, but said that since it will take 1-2 years go get approval, it wasn't an option for my husband.

Thank God for the internet and all you wonderful folks who are willing to open up and share your experiences! If it wasn't for that, we would probably have taken the surgeon's word as the final expert opinion.....

From all the searching we have done, it looks like NA is the way to go. It seems that you can always have the surgery if the NA doesn't work, but it is more difficult to get the NA after surgery.

I have heard a lot of horror stories (and some successes too) regarding the hand surgery, but I haven't heard ANYTHING negative regarding the NA procedure.

It looks like our insurance won't be of any help because our deductable is $2,000. It will be cheaper to just pay for it ourselves.

If I'm missing something, please let me know. We are getting ready to book the NA for the end of this month or the end of June.

Any information or shared experiences will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all so much. Sandie

05/02/2007 20:01
Randy_H 
05/02/2007 20:01
Randy_H 

No POST OP with NA

Certified Hand Surgeons should know what they are talking about. That's what we pay them for. And they certainly do, except when it comes to NA. On that, most are completely out to lunch. Clueless.

I realize that statements like that are not popular with some who assume that it is unlikely that we as anonymous posters on the Net would, in fact, know something their trusted CHS do not. That's why we appeal to other sergeons such as Eaton/Denkler/Kline, all of whom have websites supporting our claims. (That is a luxury we didn't have four years ago.)

No Sandie1141, I don't think you missed much. You've got it. If NA fails (unlikely) then do the Open Surgery. It's not complex. The trick is to doubt your local CHS on this *one* issue. That you have done.

05/02/2007 21:42
Sandie1141 
05/02/2007 21:42
Sandie1141 
Re: POST OP

Thanks Randy, I didn't think about it before, but these are hand surgeons. This is their field of work. Of course they know about NA. It is sad to think that they know how much they are going to put a patient through, but choose to not even mention NA. I'm sure more surgeons will do the right thing and learn how to perform NA so that they are able to best treat each individual patient.

05/02/2007 21:49
bstenman 
05/02/2007 21:49
bstenman 
Re: POST OP

Sandie,

Neither of the general practitioners I saw about my hand had a clue as to the severity potential in terms of disability of Dupuytren's nor treatment options and actually one made no recommendation and the other suggested acupuncture.

It is a genetic defect that is inherited. I found no solid medical studies indicating that alcohol or physical activity/abuse was a factor. My father who was of Finish and Swedish ancestry, and his four brothers all drank alcohol to varying degrees, all smoked, and all were involved in very physical trades, two were farmers and one a stone mason, and although they all lived into their 80's none had problems with Dupuytren's. I have significant problems that started to appear at age 54. My brother at age 50 after 30 years working as a carpenter shows no signs of Dupuytren's.

Even with a $2000 deductible you will want to explore having the medical treatment run through your medical insurance provider to potentially get a lower rate for the operation. It never hurts to negotiate a rate in advance as the extra time for multiple incisions once the anesthetic has been applied is trivial. Dr. Denkler, for example, charges per finger which can add up quickly in a case like your husband's.

Although it is not recommended by Dr. Denkler, I would want to have physical therapy after any surgery, including NA for a condition as severe as your husband's. As a lay person you cannot know how far to manipulate the hand after the procedure and a certified hand therapist would be helpful in this regard.

Bruce

05/02/2007 22:02
Randy_H 
05/02/2007 22:02
Randy_H 

Re: POST OP

-----Of course they know about NA.----

No, not necessarily. And if they do they are misinformed. I don't want to give the wrong impression that I am suggesting that CHS are necessarilly doing something "wrong" in the moral sense. I'm quite sure the majority of them fully believe what *they* have been told: i.e. NA is dangerous, powerless, and useless. Eaton himself was "shocked" when he performed his first NA. SHOCKED. Why? He came out of the same medical culture that is still Clueless. I believe it has more to do with medical tradition than medical neglect. Only by shaking that up are we doing to get anywhere. And we *are* getting somewhere!

05/02/2007 22:45
Sandie1141 
05/02/2007 22:45
Sandie1141 
Re: POST OP

Bruce, Are you saying that in your family has ever had this? Including your mother's family? My husband's dad had it. We don't know about anyone in the generation before that. I'm concerned because my husband and daughter are both left handed and they have the exact lines in the palm of their right hands. I'm hoping that more will be discovered so that hopefully my daughter won't be susceptible.

Regarding the surgeons who don't mention NA to their patients, I forget that not everyone is as open-minded as I am. I know people who believe, that what they believe, is the right belief and are not open for even a discussion. I'm open to just about anything. I tend to take in everything I can, mix it up and then sort out what makes the most sense.

05/02/2007 23:55
Mark_D 
05/02/2007 23:55
Mark_D 
Re: POST OP

Quote:



Regarding injury and DC, I spoke with Dr. Seegenschmiedt about it last week and he mentioned that a theory regarding DC is that it is an over response of the natural cellular defenses as with an auto immune disease. If that is the case than anything that would trigger the body to deal with a cell injury (infection or mechanical as with surgery) could trigger the DC.

One of the benefits that has been known for a long time is that radiotherapy can greatly reduce scarring which is another type of over response of the skin tissue to injury.

As the average life expectancy for a Western European or Scandinavian at the time the Vikings were actively spreading their seed was around 30 years, I doubt very many made it to the age when DC would be present itself.

I would expect if this line of reasoning is correct that any activity that caused a large amount of skin cell damage, including sunburn, could trigger the bodies cellular defenses and trigger NA. Climbing in the cold and having frostbite or sunburn would be more of a concern than just climbing in and of itself. I for one am not sure if I would want to be belayed by someone with DC problems.

Cheers,
Bruce




Bruce:

Thanks for that post.

My Dupuytren's Contraction came into full flower just a few months after I had heart surgery lasts year.

What you say seems consistent with my experience.

Mark

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