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Advice needed if you please
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11/23/2012 05:46
LubaM. 
11/23/2012 05:46
LubaM. 
Re: Advice needed if you please

yosh01:
callie:
Thank you. For some reason I was thinking the optimum period was four weeks and as late as 6 weeks. My hand shows zero effects from the treatment in the first round. It looks and feels exactly the same as before treatment. Should I be feeling/seeing something?

Callie, I didn't notice anything in my RT treated hand, even after both sessions for a few months. At first there was no change, then I began to think the nodules were getting smaller. For sure they were no longer getting bigger. Now, two years later, the progression in my hand has stopped in the radiated area, but I think I'm beginning to feel activity outside of the radiated area.

The real success story is the large and painful nodule in my foot that has all but disappeared after RT.
Yosh01... very interesting... your answer to Callie is almost exactly what happened to me when I had radiation on my left hand and left foot in 2009. There was no "major" improvement seen immediately following both sessions, but later on nodules felt and looked smaller. A year ago, new nodules appeared on the RT treated hand, but they were definitely outside the areas treated by RT. Now, the pinkie finger has started to contract at the PIP joint, but RT is suppose to work on nodules, not on cords, so I imagine that a cord developing on an RT treated hand and causing contracture does not mean that the RT was not successful.

And just like you, Yosh01, my success story also is that the two hard nodules on my foot are almost gone after RT.

11/23/2012 13:18
callie 
11/23/2012 13:18
callie 
Re: Advice needed if you please

You said, "I imagine that a cord developing on an RT treated hand and causing contracture does not mean that the RT was not successful".

I am not sure what you mean by this. I think you were suggesting that this cord developed outside the radiated area on the hand.

Perhaps that is why my Dr. suggested and performed the radiation on the whole palm and up to the DIP joint. It seems reasonable to me. I have always wondered if there is Dupuytren's activity taking place even before the nodules become noticeable?

The "tricky" thing about Dupuytren's/LD is that the nodules in my arches have gone down on their own over the last 10 years and do not bother me at all. Same with nodules in one hand, all without RT. They have gone dormant over the last 13 years and have all but disappeared on their own. But then another nodule popped up that I am now getting RT.

Edited 11/23/12 15:55

11/23/2012 13:40
eleven40 
11/23/2012 13:40
eleven40 
Re: Advice needed if you please

Hey Callie,

I too have a single nodule on my foot, (2-3cm) that does not bother me at all, and is not progressing, so I am leaving it alone.

My 2 small nodules, and 2 cords in a single hand have zero pain & discomfort,(nor itching/creepy feeling) although I am starting my RT treatment on Monday, as it has progressed over last 2-3 Months. So I am an good candidate...

My Rt guy seems to be taking the opposite approach as your person...he wants to do, 1-2cm around the disease, and only do a 3x4" area. (standard Dr. Seeg protocol)

Obviously I have the usual concerns posted on this forum: margins, total dosage, reoccurrence, etc. Dr. Seeg uses 2cm margins, so I'm not overly concerned with mine...it is the number of people in the US posting on this forum who have reoccurrence that concerns me. (supposedly Dr. Seeg has only seen 3-4 of all his hundreds of patients require this)

This has led some to believe he is an expert at sluething out disease that is not apparent to others....

My margins are set, my hand is marked, the mold made, and off I go on Monday....the hope is joining the 85% that have no reoccurrence!

eleven

11/23/2012 14:05
callie 
11/23/2012 14:05
callie 
Re: Advice needed if you please

That is a point of controversy, I believe. My Dr. said that with this low dose (30 gy) there would be no problem with later surgery, nor with future RT in the same area. That opinion is different from much of the material that is floating around. It might differ with the age of the person being treated. I like the logic, especially if there is Dupuytren's activity that is taking place before nodules are detectable.

11/23/2012 20:06
GaryBall 
11/23/2012 20:06
GaryBall 
Re: Advice needed if you please

I think both eleven40 and Callie have been doing their homework......

I have have had RT by Prof S. on both feet.......However, at the time I was alarmed at the large area of foot he treated......my treatment has been very successful with no new nodules......he diagnosed developing MD in both hands with very small nodules and cords which he declined to treat as they were not ready yet....when the hands are finally treated I believe that he will find ALL the disease......it already covers a large area of my hand and is almost undetectable by the untrained eye....

My point being that I would be happier over treating the whole hand than under treating when the time comes.....eleven40 is correct......many people seem to be developing new nodules outside the radiated area.....are the radiologists getting all the disease???.......I am unaware of significant side affects of treating a larger area.....I suspect the bigger evil is to to undertreat and therefore require further treatments in the future....

Wishing you the best with your treatments

Gazza

11/23/2012 21:20
Lanod 
11/23/2012 21:20
Lanod 
Re: Advice needed if you please

Interesting discussion. Eleven40 has clearly proflific progression over recent months suggesting this to be a good time to treat with RT. Gazza, could I guess that your DD in your hands could have been there - even if unknown to you - for some time and Prof. S did not then have evidence of current active profliferation and thus -wisely - he postponed treatment until a future date. The above are just some observations on the duscussion.

11/24/2012 00:50
GaryBall 
11/24/2012 00:50
GaryBall 
Re: Advice needed if you please

Yes lanod you are correct......I did nt know I had dups until prof s diagnosed....it took him all of 3 seconds.....but no evidence of active progression...hence no treatment....

11/24/2012 04:04
LubaM. 
11/24/2012 04:04
LubaM. 
Re: Advice needed if you please

Callie,
You said, "I imagine that a cord developing on an RT treated hand and causing contracture does not mean that the RT was not successful".
I am not sure what you mean by this. I think you were suggesting that this cord developed outside the radiated area on the hand.


Let me clarify...When I did the RT on my left hand there were only nodules and dimples in the palm of my hand. The doctor radiated the entire palm of the hand with an additional area on four fingers, going up above the MCP joint. About a year after the RT, I started to develop a cord in the palm right below the pinkie finger which eventually started to contract the pinkie. So the cord was not outside the radiated area. I did develop a few nodules outside the radiated area in the web between the thumb and the index finger.

11/24/2012 07:54
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

11/24/2012 07:54
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

Re: Advice needed if you please

Interesting discussion. I've seen the slides that explains a theory of how RT interrupts the disease during a proliferation phase, but nothing to explain changes that that would prevent future disease recurring in the radiated area.

11/24/2012 08:55
Lanod 
11/24/2012 08:55
Lanod 
Re: Advice needed if you please

LibaM, if a cord has developed in the irradiated area then this is an unfortunate outcome from your RT treatment which can happen is a small percentage of patients. The objective of the RT treatment is to stop progression of the disease i.e. stop progression of both nodules and cords. When people say that RT is not effective on cords, they imply that RT might not reduce the cord or might not cause the cord to disappear. However, if cords can continue to grow then RT is not effective.

LubaM - would you mind very much clarifying two points:

- what stage was your hand at prior to RT treatment?
- what dose/fractions of radiation did you receive?

Many thanks, Lanod

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