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how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils
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01/11/2013 16:45
rachaelintx 
01/11/2013 16:45
rachaelintx 
how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils

Hello.

My husband seems to have a case of Dupuytrens that has progressed to the point of having some cords- a few fingers cannot uncurl.

I have been researching this because I come from an alternative health mindset and wondered what y'all have discovered along the way.

Question: has anyone tried Krill Oil to help with this? And has anyone had success with an Essential Oil?

Understanding: It looks as though the cause of this disease is unclear or at least not agreed upon. But it seems that there is some consensus that it is an inflammatory response to repetitive motion or that it is an exaggerated response to wound healing. Sounds like in the UK, rheumatalogists treat this disease.

To break it down more, it sounds like repetitive motion causes an aponeurotic, connective tissue to be laid down in the typical way of fibrous tissues which is to heal something broken or ripped. That fibroblast (the extra tissue) is mostly composed of carbohydrates and carb-protein complexs stuck together with collegan and a couple more sticky and stretchy things. Somehow this tissue changes over time to become a cord instead of flat tissue and this change causes fingers that can't flatten out. This disease is when that process happens in the hands but the same thing can happen in the feet with a different name. (or other places in the body as well.) Do I have this right?

More Questions:
And if this is the case, is there a relationship between the SAD (Standard American Diet) which is rich in simple carbohydrates and this disease? (Since the SAD is linked with the inflammatory spectrum of problems or because the actual tissue is made up of carbs?)

since the prevalence of this disease is so high in Scandanavians, are there any more native populations in those countries and has it been observed there as well?

And does anyone know if the link between iron deficiency and celiac has anything to do with this?

Also I read something about B6 being helpful, which is interesting because I read there's a link between alcoholism and Dupuytren's and B vitamins help your liver process alcohol. Any info on that?

Thank you so much.
Rachael

01/11/2013 17:09
flojo 
01/11/2013 17:09
flojo 
Re: how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils

Rachael, I don't know any answers to your questions, but I'm so glad you are asking them! Maybe you are on to something! I look forward to seeing this thread and "research" develop.

Flora

01/12/2013 10:23
wach 

Administrator

01/12/2013 10:23
wach 

Administrator

Re: how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils

Hi Rachael,

your question are all very difficult but I will try to respond to some of them.

Question: has anyone tried Krill Oil to help with this? And has anyone had success with an Essential Oil?
A: Never heard of anyone who tried it. I myself have tried a few creams and oils with no success. I wouldn't expect much from these oils.

To break it down more, it sounds like repetitive motion causes an aponeurotic, connective tissue to be laid down in the typical way of fibrous tissues which is to heal something broken or ripped. That fibroblast (the extra tissue) is mostly composed of carbohydrates and carb-protein complexs stuck together with collegan and a couple more sticky and stretchy things. Somehow this tissue changes over time to become a cord instead of flat tissue and this change causes fingers that can't flatten out. This disease is when that process happens in the hands but the same thing can happen in the feet with a different name. (or other places in the body as well.) Do I have this right?
A: The disease starts with a benign tumor in the connective tissue of the palm. This tumor typically appears as a small nodule under the skin. The nodule grows and glues together the originally elastic connective tissue. If the nodule appears in an area that is subject to much movement, stretching and compression, the nodule will increasingly be pulled on when the hand is used. The body then develops cords to stop this pulling (the cords typically grow in the direction of the pulling forces). Eventually the body succeeds and the pulling is stopped. Unfortunately at the expense of a bent finger. It is unclear to what extent inflammatory conditions are involved in this process.

More Questions:
And if this is the case, is there a relationship between the SAD (Standard American Diet) which is rich in simple carbohydrates and this disease? (Since the SAD is linked with the inflammatory spectrum of problems or because the actual tissue is made up of carbs?)
A: No.

since the prevalence of this disease is so high in Scandanavians, are there any more native populations in those countries and has it been observed there as well?
A: Dupuytren's seems to be a global disease. It's e.g. also frequently observed in Bosnia or Japan http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr...stribution.html.

And does anyone know if the link between iron deficiency and celiac has anything to do with this?
A: No.

Also I read something about B6 being helpful, which is interesting because I read there's a link between alcoholism and Dupuytren's and B vitamins help your liver process alcohol. Any info on that?
A: There is no proof that B6 is helpful. There are many claims that all sorts of things help with Dupuytren's but usually it's just claims, no proof.

Wolfgang

01/12/2013 11:21
Seph 
01/12/2013 11:21
Seph 

Re: how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils

Rachael; I have no medical knowledge and, until I found this site I thought that LD and DD was a simple genetic disease. I can only speak for my personal 45 years of dealing with the disease but must point out that it was not diagnosed for the first 20 years.

1) "inflammatory response to repetitive motion" - might be for some but not in my case. LD appeared in my early teens and DD in my late teens. while I grew up in a country town I was not a particularly active child. I always had an academic bent so can't see how repetitive motion could be a factor.

2) "in the UK, rheumatalogists treat this disease" - I don't know about the UK but in France this is so but not because it has any link with arthritis it is simply an alternative approach to medical care. Surgeons do surgery and seldom seem to look at alternatives. In Australia where I now live the college of hand surgeons resolved some years back that the only treatment for DD is surgery and that NA is some form of witch doctor magic. There are some surgeons now doing NA but they are new and few. RT is unheard of. Xiaflex trials now being undertaken apparently.

3) "This disease is when that process happens in the hands but the same thing can happen in the feet" - yes. And I have it in both feet and both hands. I have had surgery on one foot and one hand but the disease reappeared in both cases and then developed in the other hand and foot.

4) "is there a relationship between the SAD (Standard American Diet)" - not possible in my case. I grew up in country New Zealand. where we ate what we killed or grew ourselves. No processed anything. Milk straight from the cow but boiled before we drank it, perhaps RSI from kneading the dough to make bread or swinging the axe to cut wood or chop off the chooks head but definitely no SAD.

5) "since the prevalence of this disease is so high in Scandanavians" etc - while I was born in NZ my ethnic heritage is scottish and welsh were DD and LD appears to be common. Maybe it was the viking invaders but the jury seems to be out here.

6) "And does anyone know if the link between iron deficiency and celiac has anything to do with this" - This seems highly unlikely. Certainly not in my case. People from cold climates like Scotland are more likely to suffer from Haemochromatosis. I have friends with DD and friends with Haemochromatosis. Same ethnic origin but I don't know anyone with both DD and Haemochromatosis. I have not heard of anyone with DD that is a celiac.

7) "alcoholism and Dupuytren's" - I have heard this my whole life but I developed both LD and DD in my teens. I did not have a drinking problem in my country high school and I don't have one now. I grew up eating red meat, offal, potatoes and kumara so I doubt I had a vitamin B deficiency.

Good luck with you research but my view is that things are sometimes simply a genetic condition. Obviously environmental factors can play a part if you have the genetic predisposition but that probably just affects timing and severity.

01/12/2013 12:59
wach 

Administrator

01/12/2013 12:59
wach 

Administrator

Re: how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils

Hi Seph,

the same seems to be true for alcohol: it doesn't cause Dupuytren's because it's genetic but drinking regularly can make Dupuytren's worse and possibly cause an earlier onset.

Regarding the title of this thread
"how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils?"
the answer is: probably /unfortunately not.

Wolfgang

Seph:
7) "alcoholism and Dupuytren's" - I have heard this my whole life but I developed both LD and DD in my teens. I did not have a drinking problem in my country high school and I don't have one now. I grew up eating red meat, offal, potatoes and kumara so I doubt I had a vitamin B deficiency.

Good luck with you research but my view is that things are sometimes simply a genetic condition. Obviously environmental factors can play a part if you have the genetic predisposition but that probably just affects timing and severity.


Edited 01/12/13 15:01

01/12/2013 23:28
rachaelintx 
01/12/2013 23:28
rachaelintx 
Re: how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils

Y'all have given me a lot to chew on / read through. Thank you!

By the way, krill oil is a supplement- it's not a topical cream. It is a fish oil known to help with inflammation, which of course, is only relevant if this is inflammatory.

Thank you for the correction stating this starts as a benign tumor. I know that cancerous tumors live on/grow on sugars and carbohydrates. Is that the same for benign tumors?

Given that our bodies are created (or evolved) with functions that serve a purpose, I have to assume that this disease is a poor application of a process that is good. Like how allergies are an overreaction due to misreading information. From what I read, I thought the benign tumor shows up in a manner consistent with healing. Like the body was confused; thought there was a tear and repaired it with this extra connective tissue which since it's extra would then be called a tumor.

Has anyone thought about what is the purpose of this reaction?

Also that amazing link about age and geographic distribution - I notice that very few of these featured countries are in the 30/60 window - the equatorial regions of the earth. Is there a vitamin D link? Or does anyone know of any studies again linking to diet since these areas of the globe tend to eat in a more wholesome, less manufactured way?

Rachael

01/14/2013 11:30
wach 

Administrator

01/14/2013 11:30
wach 

Administrator

Re: how can we help using vitamins/herbs/essential oils

"Given that our bodies are created (or evolved) with functions that serve a purpose, I have to assume that this disease is a poor application of a process that is good.
A: That's probably true but we don't knwo what kind of damage triggers the disease and how. When docotors/patients observe the disease it's already in a later stage. The onset itself is likely on microscopic level and difficiult to observe because there is no labrators model of Dupuytren's.

Also that amazing link about age and geographic distribution - I notice that very few of these featured countries are in the 30/60 window - the equatorial regions of the earth.
A: Data are only available where systematic reserach has been done. So far nobody researched Dupuytren's in the equatorial regions. A few years ago it was common believe that Dupuytren's is a typical Scandinavian/Scottish disease but then someone checked Bosnia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Tbwi613Qw&lr=1 and oops, there is a lot of it there.

Wolfgang

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