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Injection or Surgery? (RATHER, I SHOULD SAY AFTER HAVING NA, FIND A DOC WHO DOES NA FIRST!!!)
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08/23/2012 03:37
flojo 
08/23/2012 03:37
flojo 
Re: Injection or Surgery?

When I first had NA by Dr. Denkler 3 1/2 years ago, it was evident that he is passionate about treating Dupuytren's patients. He did many surgeries before he found out about NA by reading an article from the 1800s describing it. He knew he could do it since he is trained in hand surgery and know the anatomy of the hands very well. He prefers to treat with less invasive treatments whenever possible. He has made presentations and they are posted on his website:
http://www.plasticsurgerysf.com/home/

- ASSH Hand Society Presentation of NA

- AAPS Presentation on Needle Aponeurtomy for Severe Dupuytren's

His board certifications are American Board of Plastic Surgery 1991 and Certification of Added Qualifications in Surgery of the Hand 1992-2002

This website and patients have educated many doctors about NA and RT. Xiaflex seems more well known, but then there was the pharmaceutical company's money promoting that as an option. For me, Xiaflex would also be a choice over surgery.

Just more info to consider.

08/23/2012 05:54
Randy_H 
08/23/2012 05:54
Randy_H 

Re: Injection or Surgery?

daleladue,

Getting Second Opinions are common. I'd recommend getting an opinion from a Certified Hand Surgeon (CHS) that is experienced in *all* the options available, not just Open Surgery and Xiaflex. That would mean he offers NA as well. If he doesn't do NA then by definition it would be impossible to get the full story. While OS might actually be your best option, get all the facts. Don't short change yourself.

PS: PT recovery from OS is *not* several weeks, as in 2-3. A month minimum. Been there, will personally avoid OS at all costs.

Edited 08/23/12 08:54

08/23/2012 21:21
flojo 
08/23/2012 21:21
flojo 
Re: Injection or Surgery?

Fully agree with Randy. Get 2nd, 3rd opinion, however many it takes until you are confident that you have gotten all of the information to make the best decision you can. You don't have to rush so much that you don't have time to get the information.

08/24/2012 00:22
daleladue 
08/24/2012 00:22
daleladue 
Re: Injection or Surgery?

Thank you for all your help! You are absolutely right! This is way to important to decide without having all the information necessary to make a well informed decision and then cross my fingers!

10/19/2012 22:23
mikejake 
10/19/2012 22:23
mikejake 
Re: Injection or Surgery?

Randy_H:
daleladue,

Getting Second Opinions are common. I'd recommend getting an opinion from a Certified Hand Surgeon (CHS) that is experienced in *all* the options available, not just Open Surgery and Xiaflex. That would mean he offers NA as well. If he doesn't do NA then by definition it would be impossible to get the full story. While OS might actually be your best option, get all the facts. Don't short change yourself.

PS: PT recovery from OS is *not* several weeks, as in 2-3. A month minimum. Been there, will personally avoid OS at all costs.


Well, Randy, I just returned from Dayton, Ohio from my NA procedure and it was you stated, an incredible alternative to surgery or even Ziaflex. Dr. Peter Barre did my NA and I could not have asked for a better physician. He is a board certified orthopedic surgeon who went to France for his NA training. As you know, I initially visited with a nationally known hand surgeon who never mentioned NA. He only advocated surgery or the injection. NA is a much cheaper option than the Ziaflex which would cost me $3000 a shot and the doctor I initally saw said I would need three shots one month apart. Even with insurance the Ziaflex kickback my out of pocket would have been close to $2,000.

Before the NA I could barely shake hands. Now, I have no problem. Before the NA, my little finger was bent 45 degrees. Now, it is completely straight. Only my index finger did not completely straighten but it improved about 50 per cent is now only slightly bent. I am 3 hours post NA and I am typing this email (with the hand that had the NA peformed) to thank you for pushing me to seek the NA option. Without your admonishment, I would probably be unecessarily rehabing from the surgery my initial doctor wanted to perform.

To all people who suffer from this disorder please check out an NA trained physician even if it means you have to travel to do so.

Randy, thanks again. Your advice was fantastic!

10/20/2012 05:29
kay 
10/20/2012 05:29
kay 
Re: Injection or Surgery?

I have scheduled an appointment to see Dr. Denkler the first part of December. I had surgery on my left pinky last fall and it was fairly successful. It was about 75 degrees at that time and contracts back to about 40 during the day after wearing a splint at night. I didn't have a lot of pain with the surgery and was able to use my left hand after a few weeks but I am right handed so am checking out my other options before another OS. I had a follow up with the surgeon last week and she was surprised at how fast my pinky and index were contracting on my right hand. She recommends surgery rather than NA because of the lack of visible cord. The surgery she did on my left pinky was quite "intense" because of all the nodules wrapped around the nerve.

I emailed Dr. Denkler last Sunday after scouring this site for weeks. I sent him the "technical jargon" that was in the report the surgeon gave me at the followup and also pictures of both hands. My problem is predominantly nodules as opposed to visible cords. Denkler's first choice would be Xiaflex (which I'm not too sure about after reading some of the posts) but he did say that he would try NA since my insurance doesn't pay for either.

I'm not too optimistic about the outcome of NA for my fingers but I will feel much better knowing that I gave it a try. Has anyone else had a successful NA when dealing more with nodules?

Oh yes, All three of my fingers are bent at the PIP joint and I have nodules in the web of my right thumb.
Thanks,
Kay

10/20/2012 06:11
Seph 
10/20/2012 06:11
Seph 

Re: Injection or Surgery?

kay; I have had NA done twice on each hand. Both times with Dr Badois in Paris. Each time he did one hand then the other 3 days later. From my experience NA works for all conditions.

The comment "She recommends surgery rather than NA because of the lack of visible cord" doesn't make sense to me. I can't see how that is relevant at all. A lot of what my doctor does seems to be by feel. But then he has done more than 10,000 NA procedures over the past 15 years. Perhaps you should look for doctor with a lot of NA experience and perhaps french trained.

10/20/2012 13:24
Tusk 
10/20/2012 13:24
Tusk 
Re: Injection or Surgery? (RATHER, I SHOULD SAY AFTER HAVING NA, FIND A DOC WHO DOES NA FIRST!!!)

Dr. Denkler would know best. He is highly recommended. I've read where Dr. Eaton and others say there is a strong contraindiction (meaning a reason not to perform) for NA if there is no palpable cord, also tight or inadequate skin which might indicate diffuse skin involvement, heavy nodular involvement, and some PIP issues. Lack of palpable cord could be because of a deep location or nodular involvement. I also recall Wolfgang stating he wasn't a candidate for NA on one finger for one of those reasons. At least I think I recall that.

10/20/2012 15:00
wach 

Administrator

10/20/2012 15:00
wach 

Administrator

Re: Injection or Surgery? (RATHER, I SHOULD SAY AFTER HAVING NA, FIND A DOC WHO DOES NA FIRST!!!)

You recall that correctly. I wasn't a candidate for NA because a prominent or at least easy to reach cord was missing. NA means breaking a cord by puncturing it with a needle. I there is no distinct cord, NA is not quite feasible.

Wolfgang

Tusk:
Dr. Denkler would know best. He is highly recommended. I've read where Dr. Eaton and others say there is a strong contraindiction (meaning a reason not to perform) for NA if there is no palpable cord, also tight or inadequate skin which might indicate diffuse skin involvement, heavy nodular involvement, and some PIP issues. Lack of palpable cord could be because of a deep location or nodular involvement. I also recall Wolfgang stating he wasn't a candidate for NA on one finger for one of those reasons. At least I think I recall that.

10/20/2012 17:31
BRIANB 
10/20/2012 17:31
BRIANB 
Re: Injection or Surgery? (RATHER, I SHOULD SAY AFTER HAVING NA, FIND A DOC WHO DOES NA FIRST!!!)

Sometimes injecting the nodules with a steroid,will soften and shrink the nodules. Then going for the NA a month or two later may prove sucessful......worked for me..

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