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Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?
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12/30/2007 23:17
John656

not registered

12/30/2007 23:17
John656

not registered

Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

Joe,

When I say remission I mean there is no active disease. No pain, no new bumps etc. Actually my wife seems to think the lumps are shrinking. That I couldn't say.

My point is that the US is suffering from a host of degenerative diseases due to diet (and the drugs and procedures that are given to us to cure the diseases). Populations that eat whole unprocessed plant foods and don't eat our meat and cheese filled diet do not have heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc which I commonly hear people all around me claim are hereditary. I put DC in the same category, and who can dispute that fact? Therefore, to avoid all these horrible problems try the simple solution, low fat vegan with 80-10-10 carb/protein/fat ratio.. If someone could give you a lot of money to do whatever you wanted you could not have anything as valuable as the feeling of health and well being you will find with this regimen. You will live to over 100 regardless of whether your parents died young of heart disease or cancer, and I think we could prove in time that DC will not progress with this diet as it does not occur with any population that follow such a diet. Best thing about the plan: you are in complete control. In following the diet suggestion nobody is pushing you to buy anything or undergo surgery, etc. Talk about conservative. If you follow the advice of the people I mentioned your blood pressure will be completely normal in a month or less.. maybe days. You will have so much energy and feel so good you will never look back, and you will have the thrill of new discovery as you find new foods and ways to eat them as well as changes in your exercise program in the quest for health.

I am not selling you a book, and there is nothing in it for me. I just want to share. Regarding the Santyl. It is worth a try probably. I just checked the flexibility of the two joints affected with DC. I can push them back 2-3 inches from being perfectly straight with no pain. A couple of years ago that would not have been the case. Still I would like to get rid of the lumps. Both hands have lumps under the ring finger.

Best of luck to you. Happy New Year!

12/30/2007 23:32
John656

not registered

12/30/2007 23:32
John656

not registered

Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

P.S. The tingling that JAnnRunner mentioned in day following alcohol is noteworthy. I haven't had any alcohol in many years, but this observation should be another good reason not to ingest a chemical that does not belong in the diet we evolved to eat. What other primates can brew alcoholic beverages? None. Therefore, for basically all of our evolutionary history there was no alcohol in the diet. One should even question ANY type of drugs they ingest. The only thing I have ever taken was Viagra. My occasional potency problem I had a few years ago coincided with the appearance of the DC. Does that mean that this drug which interacts with certain enzymes could play a part? Possibly.

Since I went vegan the ED is totally cured. I don't take Viagra anymore.

In regard to fish, before I become vegan fish was eaten regularly. I had the tingling in hands, pain and new lumps appear during this time. Fish are loaded with heavy metals and also animal proteins best left out of your body. Why integrate these foreign proteins into your body? You don't need them, and it may be a contributor to DC. As newman suggested the disease is most common in Celtic fish eating populations.

12/31/2007 21:56
Randy_H 
12/31/2007 21:56
Randy_H 

Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat/drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

While I think it important to respect people's lifestyle choices regarding diet it must be reiterated that there is no definitive evidence other than individual testimony that overall diet effects Dups. This disease can often go into remission and lie dormant for years for no desrenable reason only to launch into pain and aggressive growth later on. That is why personal individual experience must be replicated by many others to have validity. That replication is how we discovered that using certain joint suppliments are not a good idea for us.

I understand the evolutionary argument for what we might call a "primitive" diet, but the same reasoning would argue against the consumption of any type of cultivated grains, ie: carbohydrates. Until man was capable of farming the vast amount of vegetable carbohydrates available to him were very low sugar, that is to say low on the glycemic scale. Previously as a "hinter gather" man was eating red meat long before he was capable of cultivating rice, potatoes, corn, and wheat. Therefore from an evolutionary standpoint he would actually be more adapted to meat than to grain. This would argue against a diet high in carbohydrates. And in fact, the latest research arguers in this direction.

While more concerned with weight control, the disease implications of carbohydrate consumption is also examined in the New York Times article entitled "A Big Fat Lie":

http://www.fibromyalgiatreatment.com/Articles_FAT.htm

This current discussion of the overall disease implication of diet is slightly off topic but since I respectfully disagree with John656 I decided to present another view. However I'm sure we have in common the belief in a diet of organic whole foods rich in fruits and vegetables.


Edited at 31.12.07 23:59

01/01/2008 00:17
John656

not registered

01/01/2008 00:17
John656

not registered

Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

I agree that grains are not part of the evolutionary diet although they may be a healthful addition that is tolerated fairly well occasionally.. I am not really talking about what would usually be considered a primitive diet because that would imply that I suggest the diet of primitive man. Let's go back further before man became so clever as to fashion tools and hunt much less cultivate. There would have been roughly 3.5 BILLION years of evolution prior to our reaching that point. Every step of this period was part of our development. Then we got smart, but really how much did we evolve in the time since. Not a significant amount, relatively speaking. There have been a few adaptations in behavior, but genetically our digestive systems are still much the same as higher primates who eat basically no animal products. Instead they eat mostly leaves, stems, and fruits in varying proportions. I don't suggest that we have to eat exactly that way, but The China Study indicates that as we add more animal products and refined foods there is a strong correlation with the common degenerative diseases plaguing the developed world. It is not much of a stretch to include DC in that group of diseases. Until a couple of years ago I thought that I was eating healthy too by eating a modest amount of fruit and plenty of vegetables, almost vegetarian with some chicken and fish added. I certainly looked healthier than most people my age, but I developed DC anyway along with several other problems that have diminished or disappeared since adopting the vegan diet. I have studied nutrition for 40 years, but only after reading a progression of newer works and studying The China Study did I understand what the truly healthy populations of the world were eating, and it was low fat, low protein, predominantly whole plant foods. Only then did I finally stop worrying that I would be missing something essential in my diet by omitting animal products. As it turns out, after eliminating completely I not only did not suffer, but instead I thrived and the DC was arrested and other problems also improved. There is not enough room here to discuss all the details garnered from the referenced work that support a diet based on whole unprocessed plant foods vs. the unhealthy typical diet of our country. So, all I can do is share the excitement that this information and the associated health benefits have given me. If you drive down the road in my city you see hospitals and clinics on nearly every corner with more going up all the time. There are provinces in China where there won't be a single heart attack this year, no diabetes, almost no cancer and no DC.. Which road will I take when my health and hands are on the line? If you read the listed publications with an open mind you will certainly come away with a different point of view. Diet should always be the first line of defense regardless of what else we try and should not be dismissed.

01/02/2008 11:55
wach 

Administrator

01/02/2008 11:55
wach 

Administrator

Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

Hi Randy,

while I agree with you that our diet discussion might be slightly off topic the article that you cited is really great!

With regard to the discussion of stone age (or similar) diets I wonder why we shouldn't be adapted to eat both meat and corn. Our set of teeth obviously is, so wouldn't it be tempting to assume that the rest of our metabolism is as well? In my opinion the claim that our body isn't (yet) adjusted to the agricultural revolution some 10 k years ago has two flaws: a) quite obviously the people when starting agriculture would have been even less adapted and therefore would have had serious problems digesting those crops. If that would have been the case agriculture probably would not have been started at all. b) our fellow chimpanzees (us being the 3rd chimpanzee type, according to Jared Diamond) live essentially from a vegetarian nutrition. But obviously the stone age people also had meat. We seem to have a very long tradition of eating both and I see no reason why our body shouldn't be adapted to eating corn AND meat.

Eating piles of junk food and drinking lots of soft drinks might be something else and and the Big Fat Lie article addresses this very well. Just a side remark: diet cokes and such are not healthy either and are suspected to even drive obesity. Getting back to Dupuytren's: I asked Charles Eaton whether his Dupuytren patients tnd tp be more heavy weight or not. He said he doesn't see an obvious pattern but, it at all, they tend to be on the slimmer side. I would have expected the opposite.

With regard to diet and Dupuytren's I think we simply should continue collecting more anecdotal evidence. This might help getting a broader picture.

Wolfgang

Quote:




While more concerned with weight control, the disease implications of carbohydrate consumption is also examined in the New York Times article entitled "A Big Fat Lie":

http://www.fibromyalgiatreatment.com/Articles_FAT.htm

This current discussion of the overall disease implication of diet is slightly off topic but since I respectfully disagree with John656 I decided to present another view. However I'm sure we have in common the belief in a diet of organic whole foods rich in fruits and vegetables.



01/02/2008 13:24
John656

not registered

01/02/2008 13:24
John656

not registered

Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

The China Study is the most comprehensive study of its kind and clearly correlates the progression of degenerative disease with consumption of animal products. It is one of a kind, and the data will help you understand why most other nutritional studies are flawed. The reference to teeth is a false assumption. Our teeth are not adapted to eating flesh. The overwhelming majority of a person's interface with environment is in their gut which has not changed at all in the last 50,000 years. Any changes in man's diet in that time has not made any changes in the digestive system (i.e.length of the gut shortened to adapt to meat eating). There is a lot of good information to support the whole food vegan diet. Diet is the most important and possibly the only therapeutic change a DC sufferer can initiate on his own. There is a lot to learn, but the solution is simple if you start with the basics. Step 1 : Adopt the diets of humans or primates that currently exist on planet earth that do not have degenerative diseases. What I find interesting is that people will go to any length to solve a medical problem including taking 15 different poisonous pills, surgery, spending their life savings and more instead of having faith that their bodies are the result of 3.5 billion years of evolution and will stay healthy on the natural diet of whole plant foods. True, some chimps eat meat sometimes after murdering rampages, but their meat eating has been found to be a social function, used for political reasons (i.e. status, subjugation of rivals, ingratiation). For 52 years I didn't see how my thinking about meat was molded by the same age old politics. Meat is politics. Therefore, it is a taboo subject that hurts peoples feelings and even threatens some people's profits (i.e. food processors, pharmaceutical companies). Sorry I brought it up to those who don't want to hear it. For those of you who are tired of waiting for some "breakthrough" that never seems to come then there is something that works that you need to know about. The whole food plant based diet espoused by authors I have mentioned before has been proven to cure diabetes, heart disease and cancer. Why not DC too? It worked for me. If I am wrong what have you lost? You saved money. Your digestion is better. You lost weight. Your arteries are clearing up. Your brain functions better because of increased blood flow and oxygen supply. Your liver, the factory that produces and processes most of the enzymes used in your body is no longer sick due to fat infiltration and over exhaustion, thereby helping with any disease that has an enzyme malfunction as its root problem such as DC. The list goes on. So think it over before you dismiss diet and buy the usual myths promoted by the meat and milk industry who don't want you to stop using their products. Diet is the topic for this string. Let's hear more encouraging stories from those who feel it has helped the

01/02/2008 20:13
jrc 
01/02/2008 20:13
jrc 
Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

I had started on a semi vegan diet prior to Christmas in the hope that this would reduce further development of my MD which is just at the small one nodule stage. I had read information on a website suggesting a vegan diet as well as other therapies may assist in halting progress. Over Christmas, when I was entertaining family and partaking of the Christmas fare (including ham, chicken, creamy desserts) I noticed after two or three days that my nodule had enlarged and I did experience some tingling. Needless to say, I have now gone back to a fairly strict diet of vegetable, fruit, grain and very limited amounts of fish (not much fun!). Already the nodule seems to have reduced in size. Not sure if this means anything as I have only had MD for a fairly short time. However, I think we must consider all options and perhaps a change of diet may assist some of us.

01/02/2008 20:37
John656

not registered

01/02/2008 20:37
John656

not registered

Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

Thanks for the comments. Have faith, my friend. You are onto something. Two years ago I was where you are now, but I have made a lot of exciting discoveries in the last two years that I think brought me the rest of the way. The good news is that all the changes have been fun and truly exciting. Not dreadful changes like you see on TV diet shows. Instead a lust for natural healthy foods. Bonus: No DC or MD or whatever we should use now. I used to believe I needed the fish, or that it would cause no harm, but now I have limited it to near zero. Can't remember when, but there is nothing from the sea that I want to eat now or feel I need to be healthy. Why take a chance? I had all my dental fillings replaced to avoid mercury so why would I want to add it back now with fish? Then there is ciguaterra and other problems with fish too. I know. I got a bad piece of fish a year or two ago and thought I would die. That has never happened with the plant foods I assure you. If you want to find what I consider the most enlightening reading for modern man here is the list:

The China Study - Dr. T. Colin Campbell
Fit for Life - Dr. Ruth Hedrich
The Green Revolution - Victoria Boutenko
Any works by Dr. John McDougall - also see his website
The 80/10/10 Diet - Doug Graham
Eat to Live - Dr. Joel Fuhrman (borrow from Dan who has 3 copies)

All these works do not agree 100%, but they all agree that whole plant foods with low fat are what we really want and need to avoid diseases that are striking down all our comrades. The fun is taking your favorite parts from each to create a wonderful LUXURIOUS diet of the best, tastiest plant foods available. I congratulate you for searching and taking control of your own health. You will live to be healthy at 100 with hands that bend like a willow.

Thanks again for sharing your experience. You probably won't need this forum much in the future, but others may benefit reading your story. Still, we may want to find a way to shrink the old DC scars even more, and I applaud the ongoing research with collagenase to do that. On other threads there has been some discussion of using Santyl, a collagenase ointment that may fit the bill. Keep in touch.

08/23/2009 19:24
AnneDublin 
08/23/2009 19:24
AnneDublin 
Re: Diet - 'Healing with whole food' great book

Hi,

I'm going to be treating my mum's DC with acupuncture (i'm an acupuncturist), herbs, homoeopathy, dietary changes and supplements and I'll probably stick to the recommendation from the therapeutic diet from Paul Pitchford's healing with whole foods. (This is an incredible book and I use it all the time for myself and for my clients.)

In terms of diet and DC so far from what I'm reading DC is very strongly connected with what the T.C.M perspective would call an imbalance in the 'Liver energy'. (It's not quite the same thing as the western conception of Liver although there's some overlap). So for my mum I'm going to suggest cutting down on foods that exacerbate this pattern of disharmony and increase foods that nourish 'liver' energy. I'd be keen on her reducing things that are 'drying' her out internally, to sort of translate this into simpler terms, that's say any spicy hot foods, alcohol and cigarettes. She doesn't take much in the way of western meds so at least that's one less thing to deal with.

But for some people vegetarianism (and stress) might be a significant part of the problem (not in my mums case), as with veganism a lack of the particular nourishment from this source can leave people, especially women very depleted and this can effect all round tissue/fascia.( If a woman has very sparse menses this might be a clue.)

Anyway, just a quick note to suggest Pitchfords book and as soon as I've done all my research I'll type it all up and make available for anyone who's interested in teh T.C.M perspective.

Best wishes,
Anne

08/24/2009 02:13
deeproot 
08/24/2009 02:13
deeproot 
Re: Is there any evidence of what we eat /drink effecting the disease of M.D.?

Hi ann, i would be interested. Seems to me that there is enough evidence to suggest a possiblity of a metabolism disorder. I believe the liver is one of the most organs involved in metabolism ?(not a doctor) Let me know if you are talking about something completely different. I have had some live tests done, and they always seem to be high in one area of the enzymes, but not always the same enzymes. At this point i believe brain storming ideas maybe the best option we have in trying to find cause. Its obvious the medical community is at a major loss, and since it is not fatal I feel we are more on our own.

Edited 08/24/09 05:16

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