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Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?
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07/20/2010 18:49
John656

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07/20/2010 18:49
John656

not registered

Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

For the last 8 weeks or so I have had pain in balls of both feet. There appears to be some swelling. Walking or running are painful. I have had Dupuytren's for at least a decade, but it has been fairly dormant. Still, it is hard to ignore the obvious possiblity that I now have LD forming at age 56. I have stopped my running workouts and find I am avoiding the long walks with my wife in hopes the feet will heal, but every morning they are a little swollen and hurt when they hit the floor. My question is whether it is common for both feet to show the same symptoms at the initial onset, or could I be lucky and just have overused my feet somehow? Professional help is pretty much out of the question with my limited insurance so I just have to work it out on my own, and the people and information on this site have always been helpful and comforting. I may try some of the Gerson therapy normally used for cancer. It is primarily a diet related approach used by cancer victims instead of radiation and chemo. It can't hurt while I wait and learn. Any comments on early onset and what to expect are appreciated. Would it be better to go back to running and long walks or does that make the LD worse?

Edited 07/21/10 14:28

07/21/2010 05:03
wach 

Administrator

07/21/2010 05:03
wach 

Administrator

Re: Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

John, what you are describing doesn't sound like LD. LD usually start in one foot and with distinct nodules. Eventually those nodules grow, make walking difficult and sometimes press on nerves causing pain.

Some patients with LD report that exercising their feet is beneficial, keeps LD at bay, while for others - probably when nerves are involved - excessive walking or dancing is too painful.

Wolfgang

Edited 07/21/10 08:04

07/21/2010 11:27
John656

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07/21/2010 11:27
John656

not registered

Re: Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

Dr. Wach,

My Dupuytren's in the hands started off in one hand then later appearing in the other hand the way you described. After reading with sadness the trials of my fellows on this site who do have LD I am in sympathy with their suffering and thankful for this group and a humanitarian leader searching for answers and sharing.

John

07/23/2010 18:29
carol 11

not registered

07/23/2010 18:29
carol 11

not registered

Re: Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

I first discovered my ledderhose in my mid 40's. When I found it both feet were involved. I first had plantar fasciitis about 2 yrs before I discovered the ledderhose. I find that when I get up after being off my feet for a while I feel like I'm walking on balloons or gel filled sacks and I feel like I'm unsteady or unballanced. After I've been on my feet for only a few minutes my feet seem to stabilize and flatten out and I can walk without feeling like I'm walking on an uneven surface The only explanation I have come up with is that the tissue around and under my nodules is displaced by my placing weight on my feet. I would be interested to hear what you think about my theory. carol

07/23/2010 18:43
John656

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07/23/2010 18:43
John656

not registered

Re: Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

Carol, That is very interesting. I have similar experience. After a nap or in the morning I feel like there is swelling under the ball of my foot. It is somewhat painful to tread on them. Do you have pain? Palpable lumps? Where are the lumps exactly? Do you have blood sugar problems? Thin body type or heavy? Diet? I have been on a vegan diet with fresh squeezed juices for last few days, but feet still have same problem. Thanks very much for your response. Do you do all your normal activities and just say heck with the LD?

07/23/2010 19:29
carol11

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07/23/2010 19:29
carol11

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Re: Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

Sorry it took me so long to answer having internet problems. Yes i'm diabetic and overweight. I have 8 lumps on one foot and 5 on the other. About 4 yrs ago i took a part time job that involved standing on my feet for 6 hrs at a time on a hard surface. My feet bothered me so much that I had to resort to pain meds. After working my feet were painful swollen and numb. Ive learned since then that I can spend that amount of time on my feet but it has to be broken into about 2 hour on 2 hour off sessions unless I want to resort to meds. I've tried a vegan diet for about 6 months did'nt seem to make any difference. My lumps are located in the ball of my foot my arch and under my toes, also on the side of my foot next to my big toe. Let me know if you have found any thing that help your feet feel better. carol

07/23/2010 23:35
John656

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07/23/2010 23:35
John656

not registered

Re: Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

Carol,

You have my sincerest wishes for a resolution to the pain. I wonder if the John McDougall low fat, high carb diet with no animal products would resolve your diabetes and then lessen your LD? I have seen conflicting comments here, but I am convinced the diet cures diabetes as I have followed the author and his patients for years. I am a 6 foot tall 140 lb man. Usually working hard or training for triathlon until last couple of weeks. Diabetes is not my problem, but lately I have strayed to eating at restaurants and more dairy, etc. as I was building a house 12 hours a day for last year. If I eat a lot of fruit I DO have sugar problems. Grains too, maybe. I dunno. Still trying to work that out. The question is if we adapt our diets to solve major known problems then can we go on to the McDougall diet to keep Dupuytren or LD in check. My Dupuytrens had not progressed at all for quite a few years. It still hasn't, but he foot thing is now showing. Some places you will read that the McDougall type diet controls DD. Maybe. In my case I went to opposite extreme and tried to eat a lot of fruit and raw greens, etc and developed a candida or yeast problem. Then I tried to correct that by eating fat and meat. Then back to the fruit when I forgot the yeast problem. Now I must backtrack and somehow get rid of the yeast. My liver biopsy had showed a fatty liver. I suspect it was too much fruit juice and high carbs while eating plenty of the usual modern foods. Is there a connection between liver problems and DD? I would bet. Do many overweight people have fatty liver? Certainly. I will be on the meat and higher fat, low carb, no grains other than bronw rice, no fruit diet for a couple of weeks to straighten out the hyperglycogenation of my liver cells and the candida. We shall see how it affects the swelling in the feet and the pain. After that it is back to the lower sugar, no grain version of the McDougall diet. Hopefully. Wish me well and same to you.

07/24/2010 05:57
wach 

Administrator

07/24/2010 05:57
wach 

Administrator

Diets and Dupuytren's/Ledderhose disease

John,

wouldn't you consider rather a low carb diet for improving diabetes? I myself am not an expert on diets but many patients are trying diets to improve their medical situation. Sounds reasonable to me whenever the disease is caused by what we are eating, and sometimes a diet might at least improve the body's capability to deal better with the disease. But these are general statements, the real question is whether a specific disease can be cured or at least improved by a specific diet.

For Dupuytren's disease a variety of diets has been proposed, see e.g. http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr...s_research.html. Unfortunately none of these diets so far has had any substantial, reproducable effect and all have side effects. Some of those diets are even contradiciting each other. There is always someone who says "yes, it helped my condition" but when someone else tries it, it doesn't help. That fosters the suspicion that the good results where accidential or caused by something else.

As much as I would like to see a successful diet against Dupuytren's, for the time being there isn't any. Having said all this, it is certainly true that we generally eat & drink too much, eat too much fat, too much meat, and too much sugar. A moderate change in nutrition towards less calories, less fat, less sugar, and less alcohol will make us healthier in general. As for Dupuytren's disease an interesting aspect is that Dupuytren patients are typically rather on the slim side (not me, unfortunately), certainly not specifically overweight. Connection between Dupuytren's and alcohol has long been suspected but recent research fails to prove it and probably it doesn't exist. The only statistical connection that seems to exist is with diabetes mellitus (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/605747) which is interesting. But it doesn't mean that a diet that helps with diabetes also helps with Dupuytren's. It might well be that both diseases are caused or fostered by the same or similar gene combination and no diet will affect our gene combination.

Wolfgang

07/24/2010 13:05
John656

not registered

07/24/2010 13:05
John656

not registered

Re: Onset of LD - both feet involved at same time?

Dr. Wach,

Thanks for the nice summary. I studied the link. I was surprised to find mention of Gort's Health Forum which I wrote a few years ago explaining that the low fat, starch centered diet had resulted in long term remission of my Dupuytren's. I did hit on another important point in that diet post to which you linked. The lady that tried the anti-progesterone diet had positive results. My wife and I give each other a 30 minute massage every night. For the last 6 months she has been using a topical progesterone cream which has soaked into my hands during the massage. She thinks that probably the lady had an anti estrogen diet and that I have it wrong. However, I asked her to postpone applying the cream until after massage time. Interesting, but it does show the complexity of diet and the interrelatedness of diet to hormones. This forum is truly a great help, as such information could be obtained nowhere else. Sometimes we do find the needle in the haystack.

It does seem counterintuitive that a high carb diet would stop diabetes, and that is how we have all been taught to think and why most people fail to lose weight. However, the John McDougall diet (which I have studied for 25 years) of low fat, high carbohydrate (of course all healthy carbs) works every time for immediate improvements and people have been able to stick with it for the long term. This is not surprising as most of the preindustrial or undeveloped world has lived on starchy foods and vegetables, fruits and very little meat or animal products without heart disease or diabetes. The China Study by Dr. Colin Campbell supports this fact. Many notable cardiologists have better results with this diet than their surgeon colleagues or statin drugs, and there are no down sides. Colin Campbell makes an excellent answer to patients who state they have been told they are unlucky and have "bad" genes which are causing their disease. His answer is,"Genes do not determine disease on their own. Genes function only by being activated, or expressed, and nutrition plays a critical role in determining which genes, good and bad, are expressed." What may have been a good gene in the past which allowed active people to survive on a diet of roots, leaves and berries may be a bad gene in the McDonald's age. Dr. McDougall actually was overweight himself and only put the diet/disease connection together when he worked in Hawaii where he saw that the older generations that ate low fat, starch centered traditional diets did not have diabetes and heart disease as their children did who were eating diets full of meat, cheese, processed foods etc.

It stands to reason that if we eliminate diabetes (and the McDougall diet gets results in a very short time with many stopping medications in a few days) then perhaps the progression of Dupuytren's or Ledderhose would also slow down. I actually had experienced this myself as reported in Gort's Forum. I later carried that vegan diet to a much more sugar filled diet centered on fruit, and that was a mistake as I developed a yeast problem BUT there was no change in the remission status of the Dupuytren's. It was only recently when I got involved in a building project and was influenced by friends to eat more rich foods that I simply abandoned the McDougall diet and found myself eating fish, meat and desserts trying to gain weight to suit other's ideas of how large I should be. Suddenly I find myself with swollen bumps on the hands and feet. If I Google Dupuytren's diet I find the first few references (even on this forum) recommending either the same vegan diet as McDougall or another "diabetes" diet, perhaps low carb. Probably either will work. The acid test is if the person can lose weight and no longer needs medications and can sustain the diet. Since there is a strong correlation of diabetes and Dupuytrens or LD it does make sense to cure the diabetes, and I know from 25 years of following McDougall and Ornish, etc. that this can easily be accomplished. My wife worked for a health clinic, and it was always frustrating to see the totally incorrect diet misinformation that was doled out. Few ever succeeded in losing weight on their suggested regimens because the authors worried that a vegan diet would appear too "radical". I would definitely encourage anybody with diabetes to try the McDougall diet. It is cheap. It is comfortable. It won't hurt anything, and it WORKS to cure diabetes and heart disease. I find that diet is the one important thing that all patients can do on their own, but we need a path to follow that leads to good results. Although my current problem has not responded to the vegan diet since returning to it recently others with diabetes will at least get results. I will report back honestly as to whether my foot problem responds to diet or not or even turns out to be LD.

Here is link to McDougall information http://www.drmcdougall.com/

Edited 07/24/10 16:18

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