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POST OP
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04/25/2007 18:34
jim_h 
04/25/2007 18:34
jim_h 
Re: POST OP

I agree. My statement about the cost of NA being comparable to surgery was misleading. What I should have said is that the surgeon makes a similar amount; but the real cost of conventional surgery also includes the charges for the anaesthetist, physical therapy, pre-surgical exam, and so on.

I haven't had NA yet, but I've had a couple of root canals, and my impression is that an NA procedure is a lot simpler, quicker and safer. But the cost is the same or higher.

When Dr. Eaton started doing NA in this country I thought things would change quickly; insurance companies would jump at the cost savings, surgeons would be happy to perform a procedure generating the same fee but less liability. Generally speaking, that has not happened. Obvsiously, surgeons are a very conservative group; none is anxious to be the first one sued for nerve damage caused by a new and unproven (in this country) procedure.


04/25/2007 18:40
craggy 
04/25/2007 18:40
craggy 
Re: POST OP

I agree somewhat with Meeg1972, having had both NA (in Paris - where it began - which is hardly mentioned now, since the forum seems to be predominately US, and so it's all Easton (learned the technique what, 3 years ago, in Paris, and does seem to charge a lot) and Denkler - doubt if that upsets Paris much) and surgery. 3/4 years ago, when I first came across the old forum, I decided to go. I didn't trust the local surgeon of the time, so opted for NA. But this january I had surgery, because Dr Badois, although doing his best, was unable to correct the little left finger, and I had great faith in a new consultant (as I've said before, he mended my dislocated collar-bone last year. And a good job he made of it) and I'm very pleased with the result - I have a very usable little finger. I can wash my face, put my hand in my pocket, do DIY, play guitar, concertina and tin whistle, and climb (off to Greece next week).. Perhaps I've just been lucky, but I have changed in my opinion about surgery. Having said that, I am also going to have NA on my other little finger, which has (after Paris) gone back to 45 degrees. Instead of going to Paris, however, I'm trying Derby - they have a surgeon who also does NA, who is open to (not so new) ideas.

I might say that those who have had a successful operation are unlikely to be writing on this forum, and in fact, if from the UK, they might well not know of any other method of treating DC. My sister has had a series of operations - some successful, some not, and until I told her, was unaware of alternatives. I don't believe, by the way, that anyone is being paid by US surgeons to push for NA, I just do think that in so many cases NA is the best first option

A slight problem today. I was crossing a limestone stile in a field and slipped (unusual that) I landed on the dislocated shoulder ( a little sore) but managed to keep the finger out of harm's way!

04/25/2007 20:37
Randy_H 
04/25/2007 20:37
Randy_H 

Informed Personal Choice

Thanks meeg1972. It's been a long time since my enthusiasm for NA has evoked a personal attack. I was beginning to wonder if I was loosing my edge :-)

I make no apologies for my significant bias toward NA as a proven first procedure of choice before resorting to OS. I reference Eaton's site often because it offers the very best data on NA on the net. I tirelessly encourage all fellow sufferers to become properly informed about NA because our current crop of American CHS certainly will *not*. What our fellows then do with the information should be no one's business but their own. It is their personal choice.

My goal is simply to inform people that there actually *is* a fully legitimate choice. At present, however, we NA proponent still have a long way to go in getting the word out don't we.

04/26/2007 01:23
Mark_D 
04/26/2007 01:23
Mark_D 
Re: POST OP

Quote:



I've had surgery for DC and statistically I'm supposed to be the worst off. I'm a woman, age 34...Irish...the scar is seamless, the finger is as it was before I'd ever heard of DC, and I couldn't be happier. Whenever I search the topic of DC in hopes of learning more about the disease, this Randy comes up...always endorsing Dr. Eaton...whether you get paid by him, are brainwashed, or just really closed-minded...others out there...explore your options. Yes, you should always get 2nd, 3rd, 20th opinions, but when you have a person so focused on telling you to go to Dr. Eaton for NA, you should definitely do some research. *Randy H*--challenge me...I'm sure you can't ignore this post, Dr. E. or your oversized sense of self won't let you.




Meeg:

Let me assure you that Randy is a GOOD GUY.

He is very bright, and has been a major help to the Dupuytren's Community.

I suggest you do a bit more research before you fire off another derogatory Email like that!

Mark

04/26/2007 13:59
Issleib 
04/26/2007 13:59
Issleib 
Re: POST OP

Yes he is. And so is NA. I'm a physician my self and lucky enough to get radiation. If it progresses 10 years from now which is probable I'll certainly go with NA before open surgery. My Father has had surgery on both hands. He has reoccurances in both and nerve damage in one. He spends winters in Florida any way. Guess where I'm sending him

04/26/2007 23:24
Mark_D 
04/26/2007 23:24
Mark_D 
Re: POST OP

Issleib:

Thanks for your input.

I'm very loyal to Randy H., becuase Randy is the person who first introduced me to N.A. (on our predecessor website).

I know that Randy has none of the bias that that Meeg accused him of. Meeg's post was ill advised; her accusatory tone was unjustified.

Randy is a patient's advocate - he goes out of his way to help people like me who suffer with Dupuytren's Diseaase.

Randy himself has had both Open Surgery & N.A.

The results of Randy's Open Surgery were, for Randy, much inferior to the results of his N.A.

Because N.A. has not gotten the exposure it deserves, Randy has dedicated a good part of his time to spreading the word about N.A. as one available treatment for Dupuytren's Disease.

Randy has mentioned Dr. Eaton a lot because Dr. Eaton was the first U.S. Hand Surgeon to bother to learn about N.A. from the Paris doctors. Randy has no financial, or other, bias that induces him to plug Dr. Eaton.

Others of us have written about other Hand Surgeons. For example, I've written quite a bit about the two N.A. docs we have in California - Dr. Keith Denkler & Dr. Prosper Benhaim. Why do I do that? For the same reason that Randy H talks about Dr. Eaton. No bias - just trying to be helpful.

In fact, Randy has numerous times pointed out that N.A. is just one option that we should consider.

I've been spending a lot of time on these discusisons myself. Why? Because it's the best way that I can repay my debt of gratitude to Randy H.

All the best.

Mark

04/27/2007 09:15
craggy 
04/27/2007 09:15
craggy 
Re: POST OP

Methinks Mark D do protest too much. Randy isn't a help to me. He doesn't make my mind up about things. I've had both NA (and again I say - I had it in Paris, with one of the founders of the NA movement, not some johnny-come-lately making big bucks in Calafornia) and surgery. At the moment the surgery is the clear winner, as regards the state of my finger, and the use I can put it to. How long that is, who knows?

I think, Mark D, you're over the top in your criticisms of Meeg. Maybe you should sympathise with her situation. At a young age she has a recurring disease that's known to be more agressive in females (ask my sister!)

Anyway, Randy did reply, and probably doesn't need you, fists up, in the background. Work on the DC, like we all do, and if it's being kept at bay, be thankful

04/27/2007 14:44
jim_h 
04/27/2007 14:44
jim_h 
Re: POST OP

I think Randy's posts reflect the fairly solid consensus among people who've participated in this forum, and the preceding Biospecifics forum, over the last few years.

Surgery is necessary in some cases, and it can work, but for most cases NA is clearly a much better choice.

04/27/2007 15:08
ademas 
04/27/2007 15:08
ademas 
Re: POST OP

different stages of the disease...different progression...different options are a good thing.

Had my condition been more severe, I might have opted for surgery first time around (rather than the NA)--and of course surgery is still on the table in the not-so-remote chance of recurrence.

I appreciate the forum and the information on all treatments, but the personal nature of some of the comments? Not so much.

04/28/2007 04:12
DianeS 
04/28/2007 04:12
DianeS 
Re: POST OP

True enough, Ademas, everyone's case is different. Ultimately each one of us has to make our own treatment decisions. But no doctor has time to give as many case examples and background as is available on this site. Information, discussion and support are not a substitute for consulting a skilled physician but are still very valuable in making tough choices.

We all have sympathy for Meeg who has to deal with this disease at such a young age. We express concern not to be hurtful but because we know from personal experience that sometimes surgery can exacerbate the condition and cause faster and more severe recurrence. That was my experience and its why I have told my brother and others to consider NA first. But the most important thing is that Meeg and others feel free to share their experiences and ask questions in a nonjudgmental environment. And we can forgive Meeg for being cranky as we all have been at some point when dealing with this nasty condition.

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