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24/F with a few questions to ask...
 1
 1
07/24/2013 22:18
givemeahand 
07/24/2013 22:18
givemeahand 
24/F with a few questions to ask...

Hi all-

First off, I am a 24/F with Dupuytren's and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (Hypermobility). I have been symptomatic in my right hand since I was 13 (first tendon release/nodule removal, middle finger MCP joint), with a tentative diagnosis at 17 (repeat release, nodule removal, MCP joint, middle finger), and an definitive diagnosis by another doctor at 22 (tendon release, nodule removal ring finger of right hand) when, six weeks after surgery, the DD reared it's ugly head hard and fast with a chord and a new nodule in the same location.

After failed steroid injections that aggravated the condition further, I decided to seek somewhat alternative treatment and went ahead with 2X weeks of RT down in Los Angeles, CA in April 2012.

The RT covered all of my hand (ct determined involvement in my middle, ring, and pinky fingers) up to the PIP joint, I believe.

For nearly a year, I (and my doctors) believed that the radiation had slowed the progression of the disease (which has since been determined to be the more aggressive form of DD), but it has become clear in the last several months that my disease is again progressing with new nodules in my middle and ring fingers.


I have both a rheumatologist (He's amazing and I see him for both the DD and the hypermobility syndrome) and a orthopedic hand specialist (who I wouldn't recommend to anyone actually trying to seek constructive medical advice) at USC Keck Medical Hospital in Los Angeles.


Every physician I have seen has said I am probably one of the youngest patients to experience symptoms of this disease (starting at 13) in at least the state (CA).

I am dominantly right-handed

Dx'd as stage 4 in right hand ring MCP and pinky PIP (Garrod's pad on my ring finger, only one for now ...).

My father, paternal grandmother, and uncle all have DD in some stage (grandmother passed away in '96 and suffered with a severe case at the time of her death).

My left hand seems to be edging on symptomatic- concerning because I am a reporter for a newspaper and a writer in my waking life, so hands are my money makers.

My questions are as follows:

1. Is there any corollary (whether anecdotal or research based) between Ehlers-Danlos and DD that anyone here knows of? They seem counter-indicated, given that EDS makes all my major joints hyper-flexible and prone to painful over extension, and DD makes my small hand joints look and feel like broken 2X4s in a Home Depot salvage lot.

2. I have been told by 4 specialists and my GP in the last 4 months that NOTHING conventional is available to me and that the sad truth is that amputation is inevitable if I keep progressing with surgery. No one covered under my insurance is willing to remove my fascia or pursue that course of surgery. Part of the problem, as I understand it, is that I am very young and this disease in its most aggressive form will only get worse with time. NA/Xiaflex are off the table due to how easily inflamed my condition is (according to specialists I have seen). To make matters worse, I am probably beginning to experience some post-RT nerve damage that is extremely painful. Two local acupuncturists have even turned me down because the success rate is so low. Massage did little except aggravate the condition. I have splinted 24/7 for months and it was unsuccessful. Best the rheum could offer was some very sincere sympathies, OT hand clinic again, and a note for the insurance to cover voice recognition technology. Lack of function is disappointing, but unchecked and aggressive pain is maddening without solutions (and I personally don't feel long term narcotic prescriptions are a solution). I take the prescription NSAID diclofenac 75mg twice a day, but is there anything anyone can recommend apart from the things I have listed to aid in the diminishment of my physical pain?

3. Is anyone familiar with physicians within California that are used to treating Diathesis or more aggressive versions of DD in young people? Any names and specifics would be greatly appreciated.


I'm pretty level-headed and open-minded. I believe most of my doctors are doing their absolute best to help me, but I cannot function like this for (hopefully) another sixty years. Hopefully I haven't driven anyone away with that wall of text. Thanks so much for all the help and hope you guys provide.

07/25/2013 03:49
cschieber 
07/25/2013 03:49
cschieber 
Re: 24/F with a few questions to ask...

Has anyone discussed full thickness skin grafts with you? There are a few people here who have had multiple skin grafts for aggressive disease and have been pleased with the results. There is a video on youtube from the Dupuytrens Symposium 2010 by Dr. Lynn Ketchum where the procedure is described and the success rates discussed. They do encounter disease extension after grafting but one of the patients showcased had all four fingers done in one operation, which seemed to do the trick for him. I have aggressive disease but it's quite tame compared to what you've been dealing with. I hope you find someone who can help.

07/26/2013 18:00
Lanod 
07/26/2013 18:00
Lanod 
Re: 24/F with a few questions to ask...

givemeahand:
Hopefully I haven't driven anyone away with that wall of text. Thanks so much for all the help and hope you guys provide.

Dear 'Givemeahand',

Firstly, thank you so much for sharing your experiences on this forum. You are so young to have this condition and you can be assured that you have not 'driven away' many people by your 'wall of text'; rather, I would imagine that your Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome condition is not at all familiar to most and thus it is difficult to know how to respond in any sort of constructive way.

I would have guessed that your RT treatment might have been more successful. I wonder did you receive the recommended dose for DD treatment of (3Gy x 5) over 5 consecutive days and this (3Gy x 5) dose repeated with some weeks interval between the two sessions, and maybe 4 or 5 MeV for depth? In the future you may be looking for further RT teatment, maybe in your left hand, so it is worth reviewing why the first treatment seems to have been less than successful.

I still feel that there may be hope with RT treatment, for you. You could contact Prof. Seegenschmidt in Hamburg and advise him that you have joined this forum and you have a somewhat specialised question for him in relation to your Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome- along with DD, and you have already tried RT treatment. Prof. S. is a good friend of this forum and he is responsive to emails from 'afar'. He has treated DD for many patients with various conditions, and he may have treated patients with the Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. I believe that he holidays during August, as do many Germans - it seems!

I am sorry that I cannot be of any more specific help - but thank you again for sharing your information and I guess more members will be in touch. I wish you the best possible outcome for your condition.

Best wishes,

Lanod

07/28/2013 18:47
Lanod 
07/28/2013 18:47
Lanod 
Disappointed with lack of response!

Hello,

This is a great forum for information. I am so grateful for its contribution. It is also a genuinely compassionate forum that really tries to help all members in the best way possible. However, we got got a contribution recently from a young female who so bravely presented her situation to us in an open an honest manner - and yet she has had no response at all; except for my very inadequate comments. This young girl has given herself the handle 'give me a hand' and yet we did not attempt to give her a hand ( a Tabhair dom do Lámh)!

Is there anything constructive that we can offer?

Humbled,

Lanod

PS - here is her original submission:

Hi all-

First off, I am a 24/F with Dupuytren's and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (Hypermobility). I have been symptomatic in my right hand since I was 13 (first tendon release/nodule removal, middle finger MCP joint), with a tentative diagnosis at 17 (repeat release, nodule removal, MCP joint, middle finger), and an definitive diagnosis by another doctor at 22 (tendon release, nodule removal ring finger of right hand) when, six weeks after surgery, the DD reared it's ugly head hard and fast with a chord and a new nodule in the same location.

After failed steroid injections that aggravated the condition further, I decided to seek somewhat alternative treatment and went ahead with 2X weeks of RT down in Los Angeles, CA in April 2012.

The RT covered all of my hand (ct determined involvement in my middle, ring, and pinky fingers) up to the PIP joint, I believe.

For nearly a year, I (and my doctors) believed that the radiation had slowed the progression of the disease (which has since been determined to be the more aggressive form of DD), but it has become clear in the last several months that my disease is again progressing with new nodules in my middle and ring fingers.


I have both a rheumatologist (He's amazing and I see him for both the DD and the hypermobility syndrome) and a orthopedic hand specialist (who I wouldn't recommend to anyone actually trying to seek constructive medical advice) at USC Keck Medical Hospital in Los Angeles.


Every physician I have seen has said I am probably one of the youngest patients to experience symptoms of this disease (starting at 13) in at least the state (CA).

I am dominantly right-handed

Dx'd as stage 4 in right hand ring MCP and pinky PIP (Garrod's pad on my ring finger, only one for now ...).

My father, paternal grandmother, and uncle all have DD in some stage (grandmother passed away in '96 and suffered with a severe case at the time of her death).

My left hand seems to be edging on symptomatic- concerning because I am a reporter for a newspaper and a writer in my waking life, so hands are my money makers.

My questions are as follows:

1. Is there any corollary (whether anecdotal or research based) between Ehlers-Danlos and DD that anyone here knows of? They seem counter-indicated, given that EDS makes all my major joints hyper-flexible and prone to painful over extension, and DD makes my small hand joints look and feel like broken 2X4s in a Home Depot salvage lot.

2. I have been told by 4 specialists and my GP in the last 4 months that NOTHING conventional is available to me and that the sad truth is that amputation is inevitable if I keep progressing with surgery. No one covered under my insurance is willing to remove my fascia or pursue that course of surgery. Part of the problem, as I understand it, is that I am very young and this disease in its most aggressive form will only get worse with time. NA/Xiaflex are off the table due to how easily inflamed my condition is (according to specialists I have seen). To make matters worse, I am probably beginning to experience some post-RT nerve damage that is extremely painful. Two local acupuncturists have even turned me down because the success rate is so low. Massage did little except aggravate the condition. I have splinted 24/7 for months and it was unsuccessful. Best the rheum could offer was some very sincere sympathies, OT hand clinic again, and a note for the insurance to cover voice recognition technology. Lack of function is disappointing, but unchecked and aggressive pain is maddening without solutions (and I personally don't feel long term narcotic prescriptions are a solution). I take the prescription NSAID diclofenac 75mg twice a day, but is there anything anyone can recommend apart from the things I have listed to aid in the diminishment of my physical pain?

3. Is anyone familiar with physicians within California that are used to treating Diathesis or more aggressive versions of DD in young people? Any names and specifics would be greatly appreciated.


I'm pretty level-headed and open-minded. I believe most of my doctors are doing their absolute best to help me, but I cannot function like this for (hopefully) another sixty years. Hopefully I haven't driven anyone away with that wall of text. Thanks so much for all the help and hope you guys provide.

09/14/2013 21:54
allisun 
09/14/2013 21:54
allisun 
Re: 24/F with a few questions to ask...

I have nothing to say that can offer a solution, but I am here to empathize because I'm in a similar situation and tell you about the massage therapy I'm going try. I was diagnosed with Dupy's in left hand at age 23 (instigated by trauma, a simple kitchen knife wound) and have gone through multiple courses of RT, which even brought to me Germany after my first US based treatment failed. In Germany I saw the "Expert" Dr. Seegenshmiedt who also found dormant signs in my right hand and in my foot. I saw him twice, so there's a small portion of my palm that received 51gy, then the rest of it was 30 gy received in doses 10 months apart from Dr. S. He treated everything up to the first knuckle. I was told I had a 90% chance of stabilization in my non-contracted fingers. Two years later after RT? My dup's is back, in my pinky PIP joint, where there was no contracture or cord before.

I am similarly frustrated that I'm now age 30 and my Dup's is back and there's seemingly fuck-all I can do about it. From everything I've read, research based and first-hand experiences say Dup's doesn't like trauma and the recurrence rates for NA and Xiaflex after 4 years are abysmal. I am like you, faced with 50+ years of living with this and dreading the possibility of how I'm going to end up with amputations and some sort of robo-hand in 20-30 years!

I have heard anecdotally from Stephen Jeffreys, a massage therapist also on this forum with has had success in helping 7 Dup's patients. I have also heard elsewhere that massage "agitated" the disease. All I know is, my disease is here and I'm screwed if I don't do something to try and stop it from getting ot hte point of traumatic procedures. So, I'm on board now with my personal massage therapist to try and do something along the lines of what Stephen is doing in the UK.

09/14/2013 22:56
callie 
09/14/2013 22:56
callie 
Re: 24/F with a few questions to ask...

I had surgery on a 90 degree plus little finger and had excellent results (no contraction 12 years later). There was very little pain with the procedure and recovery. The fellow who was the technician for my RT had a similar surgery 21 years ago and his finger showed no signs of Dupuytren's after all this time.

Don't let your hand get too bad before you do something. No need for the amputation talk.

05/02/2016 06:33
itsca 
05/02/2016 06:33
itsca 
Re: 24/F with a few questions to ask...

I know this post is from a few years ago, however I just came across it while looking for correlation with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome - Type 3 and Dupuytren's. I have both as well and am looking for treatment options and researching the internet to find some sort of link as the two seem opposite of each other. Since writing this post in 2013, were you able to come up with any options that have helped?

05/07/2016 05:00
Peacefulbird 
05/07/2016 05:00
Peacefulbird 
Re: 24/F with a few questions to ask...

To Givemeahand,

Like the response above mine, I really hope to hear from you. Like others, I empathize with your situation. I know how desperate I feel at age 73 as the disease begins to cripple me, how anxious I feel about the future, the next 20 years as my capabilities diminish, as it gets more and more difficult to type, to hold things, to manage the business of daily life. It's difficult to imagine how hard that would be at your age. There are some great books by and about people with extremely serious disabilities, amputations, deformities, people who manage even so to be productive, spiritually alive and well. I wish that for you, and for all the rest of us too.

Wishing you all the best,
Peacefulbird
Washington state, USA
right hand DD, onset Oct. 2015

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progressing   disappointing   non-contracted   prescriptions   constructive   rheumatologist   Hypermobility   treatment   surgery   specialists   questions   Ehlers-Danlos   aggressive   disease   hyper-flexible   condition   acupuncturists   counter-indicated   Syndrome   grandmother