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A non-surgical treatment approach
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08/06/02 02:35
Sherry Schock

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08/06/02 02:35
Sherry Schock

not registered

A non-surgical treatment approach

Hello
I am living in China so have been taking advantange of the opportunity to try non-surgical treatment for dupuytrens.

I am losing some flexibility in my right hand which has 5 nodules, one I have had surgery on a year ago. The rest began growing in April, 2002, also now have one on my left hand, and right foot.

Since beginning to use a tiens instrument, which looks like a pen with a round metal tip, and is magnetically charged, my nodules have softened and become smaller, they feel more like a callous now.

This is not a common ailment among Chinese, but the local woman who is treating me says it will take about six months.

I do this at home, try for a 1/2 hour a day, applying pressure and massaging with this instrument on the nodules and then along my fingers and then from the nodules back toward my wrists. You do it more on the places that hurt. The Chinese also use this instrument on acupuncture points to treat many other problems.

The instrument in China costs about $75 U.S., but costs much more in the U.S. (5 times apparently) Make a trip to China and buy one! In the U.S. contact tianshiusa@aol.com Tianshi Health Products Inc, 728-134th Street S.W. Suite 222, Everett WA 98204, or 2221 Rosecrans Ave Suite 122 E1, Segundo, CA 91007

Canada: tianshichanada@sinca.com 105 Gordon Baker Road Suite #103, Toronto, ON M2H 3P8
or 3071 N.5 Road Unit 8 Richmond, BC

08/07/02 02:49
Eddie 
08/07/02 02:49
Eddie 
Acupuncture

For some time I've been wondering why the acupuncture is never mentioned in this forums. I assumed it was just because DP is not a disease common to chinese people. Now, I found some basic information about 2 acupuncture organisations over here (Belgium), and in the list of possible treatments I see DP appear (early stage).
Has anyone else heard about the use of acupuncture ?
I will try to get spme more info and probably see one within a couple of weeks.
Of course I will post whatever I can find out.

08/07/02 02:12
Gary Evans

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08/07/02 02:12
Gary Evans

not registered

Chinese treatment for dupuytrens

Eddie,
That will be interesting. Wouldn't you think that acupuncture would stimulate growth. It just seems like any invasion would/could get it going.
Gary

08/08/02 02:27
Eddie 
08/08/02 02:27
Eddie 
Acupuncture

Gary, you know I am more than a bit weary about any physical intervention in the hands.
However, if NA is not supposed to stimulate growth, than I would think that acupuncture isn't either, or even less so.
But, like I said, I hope to know more in a couple of weeks, if I can find an acupuncturist with experience with DP.

08/08/02 02:14
Gary Evans

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08/08/02 02:14
Gary Evans

not registered

Chinese treatment for dupuytren

Eddie,
I respect your judgement about your interest (similar to mine) in Dupuytren's. Is NA the primary procedure being done in Europe? Is it just so new that most medical people don't use it yet? If NA is as successful as everyone says, why isn't it (or is it?) the only accepted procedure for early DC? Are there any problems with NA? We are being continually told on these message boards that "we've got to go to Europe" and have this done. Does everyone in Europe do NA?
I can't help but believe there is more to this story. Why isn't it practiced in UK? Why not in the US? If there is a client base (which there is), why wouldn't every (or most) Rheumatologists do this procedure as part of their practice?
What are the "medical/legal hassles" often mentioned?
Gary

08/08/02 02:37
Chuck Jines

not registered

08/08/02 02:37
Chuck Jines

not registered

NA

Gary, if you're on to something wrong with NA, it would be nice to see facts and not just innuendo. Many, myself included, believe that money drives the medical establishment/industry in this country. Our best interests are not always the primary concern. Notice the history of how the AMA tried to destroy Chiropractic. I suspect they would have no qualms attempting to discourage anything other than what they offer.

I get the repeated impression, from your posts, that every other possible treatment is to be disregarded or doubted in favor of surgery.

08/08/02 02:43
Jan

not registered

08/08/02 02:43
Jan

not registered

always the same subject : DP

I must say, also, that i have doubts about the 'surgury industry' in the USA. I think more unnecessary surgury is done than is needed.

08/08/02 02:57
Eddie 
08/08/02 02:57
Eddie 
always the same subject : DP

Gary, you sure have a lot of questions :)
I'm afraid I really don't have clear answers. For some of the questions, I can give my opinion, or make a guess.

Is NA the primary procedure in Europe ? Without having facts and figures, I don't think so. When I had my surgery, may 2001, I even hadn't heard about it. I had seen 3 GP's over about 15 years, and they only talked about referring me to a hand surgeon.

NA new ? No, I think it exists for about 30 years, starting in France.

NA that successful ? I am not sure I have seen 'real' figures, neither on surgery nor on NA. A 50% recurrence is vaguely reported for both procedures.
Of course NA looks attractive because it is so much less invasive than surgery.
Also, as far as I know NA is not the way to go it the cord has grown too far in the finger, especially the pinkie.

Problems with NA ? Adversaries to NA keep hammering on the possibility of cutting nerves, because one does a 'blind' intervention. The surgeon I spoke about in an earlier post said that any competent hand surgeon (does this also apply to the people who apply NA? Or did he just mean a good knowledge of hand anatomy ? ) knows very well the position of the nerves relative to the DP cords. Except in the very extreme cases ( bend > 90 degrees e.g. )

Everybody in Europe has NA ? see above.

Why not practices in UK or USA ? Or, not exclusively in Europe ? I am not going in the money-discussion. Some (wild ? educated ? ) guesses :
- the medical world is not known for its willingness to accept fast changes
- the procedure exists about 30 years, while the surgery is performed for almost 2 centuries. For acupuncture ( not talking about DP now ) it took much longer than that before it was gradually accepted in the western world as a valid alternative to the 'classic' treatment of certain illnesses.
- no offence, but, neither UK nor USA is very willing to accept things which didn't originate in their country
- NA of course leaves the 'sick' tissue in the hand. I suppose some people consider it better to remove it, although I haven't read a good explanation why that would be preferable. It is not growing the way a cancer does.

Medical/legal hassles ? Sorry, don't know what you mean by that.

This is a very long post, without really answering to your questions, but I did the best I could.

08/08/02 02:53
Gary Evans

not registered

08/08/02 02:53
Gary Evans

not registered

Chinese treatment for dupuytrens

Thank you for your comments, especially Eddie. I assure all of you that I am not pushing surgery. I am obviously writing my messages wrong, because I must be leaving the impression that I love surgery. I will have to probably have surgery (or something) on my other hand in the future so I will continue to pursue information up until the time I choose which method. My feeling about surgery only comes from having an experience that was much better than I anticipated.
I don't even know if a Rheumatologist can be licensed in the US. I have never heard of a Rheumatologist before. If they can, why can't NA be performed? Does the procedure have to be approved by the FDA? If they haven't approved NA, there must be a reason, a study or written document(other than conjecture). I would just like to know.

08/09/02 02:26
Chuck Jines

not registered

08/09/02 02:26
Chuck Jines

not registered

NA

When I was first diagnosed with DP, I began making inquiries with my insurance company, despite the fact that I have not yet had contracture. I asked about coverage should I go to Europe and pursue NA. A parrot at Blue Cross kept repeating 'FDA Approval FDA Approval FDA Approval'. Finally realizing that logic would not work with this individual I contacted the FDA. The FDAs response was that they do not approve surgical procedures, only drugs and devices. They further said that when an insurance company says 'FDA Approval' what they really mean is 'commonly accepted practice'. So finally, after a lot of phone calls, got approval to use my flex spending account for NA. This would include travel, hotel, surgery, etc. Whatever is covered by IRS form 502 (if my memory serves me correctly). So, once the enrollment period for 2003 flex spending account opens up, I'm left with the decision to start saving tax free money towards this potential eventuality. I'm hoping that cortisone injections will make this a non issue, I'm currently waiting for the doctor to get the medication in.

It appears, in my opinion, that there is no final solution (at this point) to DP. Any choice has a great chance of recurrence. However, I'll first choose the least invasive approach, that will not prevent choosing another path should I so choose. Plus I'm hoping, that should I need NA or whatever, that the collaganese injections will be available before I ever need anything invasive.


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