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08/07/2004 23:03
Mary Beth

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08/07/2004 23:03
Mary Beth

not registered

ketchum and UCLA

Steve that website is:

http://www.lynndketchum.com

08/07/2004 23:19
steve 
08/07/2004 23:19
steve 
ketchum and UCLA

Thanks, I have read his journal papers on his full thickness skin graft technique and better recurrance results. I am surprised you consider it less invasive as I thought the procedure was far more radical in order to achieve its benefits. Are you going to have him do surgery for you? What is your situation - have you tried NA already?

And sorry to hear about the reaction to surgery - my surgeon did warn me but he said it is as much as 15% get that swelling reaction. Oh well...risks in everything. Hopefully Dr Eaton can fix it better with the second round of NA in 2 weeks or off to the knife I must go.

08/07/2004 23:51
Mary Beth

not registered

08/07/2004 23:51
Mary Beth

not registered

Ouch

Steve,
Sorry I didn't clarify more. Dr. Ketchum's site does reference dermal fasciectomies, which are probably more invasive. However he recommended for my husband removing sections/segments of the cords and then applying skin grafts "strips" in place of the palm skin. He drew on his hands with a pen where he would do this and it was definitely minimal surgery as compared to his four previous fasciectomies. He was familiar with the McCashin (sic?) method that was done once on his left hand and referred to it as much more difficult of a recovery. He gave some patient references to call, which we are going to do. We just went this past Tuesday, so have not scheduled anything as yet.

08/07/2004 23:06
Randy H.

not registered

08/07/2004 23:06
Randy H.

not registered

Ouch

Mary Beth:

Did I understand you correctly that Dr. Ketchum's refereed to the "McCash" form of fasciectomie being a far more difficult recovery? (McCash....I know how to pronounce it, maybe not spell it). I didn't get a skin graph. There was about 3/4" of skin between the first crease of my pinkie and the PIP joint that was completely removed! I've grown back skin from the inside out. Gee. I wasn't given a choice of procedures. Now I'm envious of all you folks with zigzag scars:)

08/08/2004 23:21
stage one

not registered

08/08/2004 23:21
stage one

not registered

Fire Breaks

I am not an expert. Mary Beth's post reminded me of the
procedure referred to as "establishing a fire break" by
grafting epithelium (skin) from a non involved site. The
benefit. presumeably, being non DD DNA. (One does not have
DD of the buttocks or groin.) Randy's report does not seem
to reference a graft; instead it sounds like tertiary intention, or "granulating in." If so, that means the
same old, same old growing back into the wound. If DD
involves DNA of the aponeurosis and adjacent tissues,
then, fire breaks make sense. Granulating in would more
likely result in scar tissue and recurrence. All this
is conjecture, because I was not there and have no direct
knowledge of the circumstances. Food for thought, perhaps.
NA involves neither above form of wound healing; nor does it
remove the "offending" tissue (no fire break.)It does
interrupt the DD process with minimally aggravating circumstances. Imagine chewing gum adhering the sole of
your shoe to the floor. NA cuts through the gum and leaves
remnants on both sole and floor. In time the fibers reconnect. Hand surgery removes much of the "offending"
tissue; and, triggers wound healing. Without a "fire break"
the condition recurs because the underlying source remains.
Feel free to correct any inaccuracies or mis-statements. The
above is my opinion, not irrefutable science. Final thought:
collagenase would dissolve (some?) of the chewing gum and
allow separation of the fascia from the tendon-aponeneurosis
interface. Presumeaably, the chewing gum fibers re-connect
over time.

08/08/2004 23:35
Randy H.

not registered

08/08/2004 23:35
Randy H.

not registered

the Brightest and Best

Stage I:

As a presumable patient, your expertise apparently far exceeds that of mere mortal man :). Dups is apparently a malfunction caused by a genetically inherited per-disposition, triggered by trauma and/or we know not what (other than the general tissue breakdown of advancing years). Unfortunately this Wackmister of a physiological dysfunction is probably as complex a puzzle as AIDS or cancer. Not being fatal, and we being few, the Brightest and Best are not staying up late trying to solve it. Inasmuch as the best full fasciectomies are often temporary, I'd personally prefer less invasive NA or the long awaited Collegenase as a repeatable band aid to the long recovery time involved in the modern variation of what they came up with nearly 200 years ago. ADMITTEDLY, some may fare better under the knife than I, but it now seems clear that most would do well to avoid it ALTOGETHER with NA if at all possible.

May you remain stage I forever.

RBH

08/08/2004 23:54
Sean 
08/08/2004 23:54
Sean 
McCash

"McCash's approach was to make incisions in the transverse skin creases and to move the undermined skin bridges so the skin shortage is transferred to the distal palmer crease incision which remains wide open. Only the diseased fascia has to be removed. The open wound is dressed at a weekly interval. The wounds generally close in 2-5 weeks and since they remain open, there is no possibility for a haematoma to collect. A disadvantage of the open palm technique is that patients are apprehensive about the open wound. The great merit of the method is its safety."

My surgeon said he might use the McCash method depending on the elasticity of my skin.

08/08/2004 23:33
Sean 
08/08/2004 23:33
Sean 
Mary Beth

Dr. Lynn Ketchum does use the limited fasciectomy according to his website. Are you saying he has changed his approach to Dupuytren's recently and hasn't changed his website?

"The dermofasciectomy procedure is only used if an individual has one or more factors of the "Dupuytren’s Diathesis", which indicates a greater tendency toward recurrent disease. Otherwise a conventional limited fasciectomy is employed."

08/08/2004 23:46
Sean 
08/08/2004 23:46
Sean 
stage one

Stage one,
I agree with much of your post. From my experience with friends, research and talking with hand surgeons, a persons diathesis has as much, or more to do with recurrence than does a particular procedure.
I think that is the root of all the name calling and differing opinions on this website. If everyone had the same diathesis, then it would be easy to evaluate the different procedures. As we know, with Dupuytren's, each patient is different. In my case, I had as good of an outcome as a person could possibly have from any procedure. I had a limited fasciectomy. Someone with a different diathesis might have had a completely different outcome. Same with NA. Probably the same with any surgical procedure.

08/08/2004 23:58
Mary Beth

not registered

08/08/2004 23:58
Mary Beth

not registered

NA

Sean,
I was remiss in my wording. I don't know what Dr. Ketchum does for others, only what he recommended for Richard. Since I was replying to Steve, and he seems to have a bad recurrence problem, same as my husband, I responded with a bad diathesis in mind.

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technique   dermofasciectomy   fasciectomies   per-disposition   Apronvrectomy   procedure   steve-surgery   contracture   tendon-aponeneurosis   circumstances   procedure~dq~   Algodystrophy   recurrence   Ketchum   website   physiological   Dupuytren’s   experience   surgery   mis-statements