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Cannot make a fist following surgery
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08/10/2005 23:27
Wolfgang Wach

not registered

08/10/2005 23:27
Wolfgang Wach

not registered

NA vs. surgery vs. collagenase injection

Randy, I really would presume a higher reccurence rate when using NA. A statement from the probably well-known site www.dupuytren.org that promotes NA:

"Five years results (of NA) show that recurrence rate is quite comparable with surgical one, although they seem slightly earlier.
Nevertheless, it is easier to repeat fasciotomy than accept the prospect of a more complicated operation."

The reason why I would expect hight recurrence rates for NA is because Dupuytren nodules grow by collagen lumping onto initial little pieces of collagen. Surgery attempts to remove the collagen completely and thus (theoretically) minmizes the chance of recurrence. In real life it very much depends on the quality of the surgeon and on chance whether this works out.

NA on the other hand does not remove the collagen nodule/cord but damages it to an extent that the finger can overcome the tension and can stretch again. It's basically a mechanical thing and that's why it works more or less immediately. But the Dupuytren cord is still there and can resume its growth. Actually I would expect it to grow. But because it has been stretched, it will probably take longer to build a strong enough tension to bend the finger again.

Collagenase is an enzyme that dissolves collagen. Thus, a collagnase injection is considered to remove the collagen lump and (theoretically) rhe Dupuytren nodule should not come back again. As far as I know the recurrance rate actually is quite low so far. The current concern with collagenase is probably that it for sure won't stay just within the nodule where it has been injected. The question is whether it does damage elsewhere. Maybe it does good, e.g. eliminating neigbouring, so far undetected Dupuytren mini-nodules. Who knows.

08/10/2005 23:41
Randy H.

not registered

08/10/2005 23:41
Randy H.

not registered

NA Vs Collagenase Recurrence

Wolfgang,

From my understanding, only enough Collagenase is injected to allow the finger to be pulled back and break the weakened cord. Yes, it devolves *some* diseased tissue to do this (as opposed to just breaking it with a needle) but I haven't read anything that would suggest that a significant amount of the total tissue is dissolved. That's why I would put Collagenase and NA in the same boat in regard to expected recurrence.

"Surgery attempts to remove the collagen completely and thus (theoretically) minmizes the chance of recurrence"

Correct. So if Collagenase leaves 90% of it behind, shouldn't it theoretically be far more similar to NA than OS in recurrence rates? This is all still *theoretical* though because until we have good 5 year study rates on *both* this is all still conjecture.

I'd love to see Collagenase be the magic bullet that can dissolve significant protons of diseased tissue, but that's not where they are going with it at this point. As you say, the danger of it dissolving other tissue must be resolved first.

08/10/2005 23:29
jim h

not registered

08/10/2005 23:29
jim h

not registered

Collagenase

The subject of Collagenase for Dupuytren's is moot, as I believe BioSpecifics' plans for completing its FDA approval are essentially dead.

Someone will now jump in here and say no, they just spoke with a doctor and the trials 'will begin soon'. That's been the case for at least the last 7 years, and BioSpecifics financial picture seems to be bleaker than ever.

I see little advantage to collagenase over NA anyway, and it's likely to be much more expensive. This may account for the apparent lack of interest in marketing the product.




08/11/2005 23:46
Wolfgang Wach

not registered

08/11/2005 23:46
Wolfgang Wach

not registered

Collagenase

Thank you Randy, I am learning fom you!

Wolfgang

08/11/2005 23:36
Randy H.

not registered

08/11/2005 23:36
Randy H.

not registered

Reply

Wolfgang,

We all learn from each other as our Surgeons seem to be mute.

Jim h,

My bother in NA.........

Excuse my wide Eyed Optimism and I'll excuse your Informed Pessimism.

08/17/2005 23:46
ivan

not registered

08/17/2005 23:46
ivan

not registered

calcifications

unable to flex 4th finger- no previous surgery. xray shows lots of calcification possibly around flexor tendon, and very extensive- has anyone else had calcification in Dupuytrens tissues? It is very painful Ivan

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Wolfgang   operation   injection   aponeurotomy   calcifications   surgery   BioSpecifics   recurrence   understanding   Nevertheless   information   mini-nodules   dupuytren-online   Dupuytren   significant   completely   collagenase   collagen   theoretically   calcification