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Dupuytren~sq~s Disease
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02/02/2005 23:42
Randy H.

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02/02/2005 23:42
Randy H.

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NA

It sounds like the guy is quite competent. Does he call this procedure "Needle Aponevrotomy", which is what the inventor of NA, Dr. Lermusiaux, named it. He must have *some* French influence, or perhaps learned the term when he was on this Forum some months back.

02/02/2005 23:13
Keith Denkler MD

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02/02/2005 23:13
Keith Denkler MD

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NA

Fun to get the word out on NA, as channel 7 will broadcast the show in March to the SFO Bay Area. Also nice to do not only a NA for Dupuytren's, but a PIP joint release with a extensor tenotomy for Dupuytren's Boutonniere Deformity Something which I don't believe other physicians have been doing, but is part of the needle desmotomy procedures and releases I was taught by Dr. Kilgore.
I think this will help patient demand as TV exposure is great and will help get the word out.

Thanks for the ticket offer, but it is not the ticket, but the time. Wife looking forward to Italy this year, not Paris. Anyone else getting their joints released?

Just to remind the Board, Needle aponeurotomy is part of a graduated program that goes with Cortisone injections, exercises, needle releases, segmental aponeurectomies (note spelling), and fasciectomies with or without skin grafts or flaps. New treatments can be added to this as they arrive, and hopefully Collagenase!!!
The greatly expanded indications for NA, expounded by the Paris group is a great contribution. Plus their use of multiple releases, and small needles is a great advances.
It will take a long time for physicians to get the message, but time is on your side.

Keith Denkler

02/02/2005 23:44
Butterfly Enthusiast

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02/02/2005 23:44
Butterfly Enthusiast

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You are missing the point

Dear Jay,

Did Dr. Denkler know about NA before you told him? See my point?

So I ask you, will the old man, crippled and without insurance settle for a dentist because no one is there to says 'Don't, that doctor has not been trained and it's against the law'?

Like I said earlier, even doctors who want to give BOTOX for wrinkles must have training - and it's for the same reason - so the procedure will be the same all over the country. This is the best we can do Jay.

Why is it such a crime to expect the same thing of our hands?

Butterfly Enthusiast


02/02/2005 23:50
Butterfly Enthusiast

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02/02/2005 23:50
Butterfly Enthusiast

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Why?

Dear Dr. Denkler,

I did not see your post before posting my last message as I got called away from the screen. Now that you are here, I have a question,

Why did you not go to France?

Butterfly Enthusiast

02/03/2005 23:54
Keith Denkler

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02/03/2005 23:54
Keith Denkler

not registered

Butterfly

The trip to France is not soon due to lack of time. I have many, many things going on. Besides I have been to France many times and have studied there. It is not on my schedule for 2005.
Speaking of Botox, it requires no training. That is why many persons do it. No training is required. I do a lot of it, and it works great for many conditions such as tennis elbow, whiplash, and even back pain, in addition to its popular cosmetic uses. KGO filmed me the same day as the Dupuytren's releases doing Botox for back pain and whiplash injuries. Last year KGO filmed me using Botox for tennis elbow. Lots of innovations keep happening in mediicine.
Hands are different, and most hand surgeons are extensively trained, like myself, and most GP's or lay practitioners will not touch them due to the difficult anatomy and need for a broad understanding of the tissues including tendons, bones, nerves, ligaments, and skin. Needle releases are not limited to the hands or Dupuytren's either. Needle releases work great for scars, adherent tendons, and certain contracted joints.
The major problem is needle releases take a tremendous feel and understanding of the tissues and the anatomy. Don't try it at home!

Keith

02/03/2005 23:07
Butterfly Enthusiast

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02/03/2005 23:07
Butterfly Enthusiast

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Future of NA

Dear Dr. Denkler,

Thank you for responding and correcting me.

I am torn between total elation at this development and deep concern. NA has been the baby of many of us for a long time and we worry about its future ....without a central point for training - it could become watered down and different from doctor to doctor.

Do you have any suggestions as to how to ensure the basic procedure for preforming NA will remain the same from doctor to doctor? Are you willing to be a cental point for surgeons to train from? Perhaps willing to perform a North American Study?

And by the way....I appreciate the respect you are giving us by speaking on this forum - you are the first to do so.


Butterfly Enthusiast.

02/03/2005 23:17
Anon

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02/03/2005 23:17
Anon

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Disappointed

Dear Dr Denkler,

I am disappointed you did not go to France and do not believe you stories about time - if you can go to Italy, you can go to France, if you can spend lots of time teaching yourself how to perform your version of NA and make television appearances - then you have time to go to France.

The reason why we wanted training to happen from France, or Dr. Eaton is because of pedigree. So many of us have been humiliated by our doctors, they have called NA 'dangerous', 'hokus pokus', 'anicdotal', 'snake-oil' and much more.

Although I have no doubt you are a skilled surgeon, you have not done us patients any favors by not being consistent with Dr. Eaton.

Now the US will have two styles of NA, Dr. Eaton's which comes from France, and at least a study behind it, and Yours which you developed yourself and is not studied. Can you imagine what our doctors will say to us about that? They will be even more negative and call it medical experimentation and showmanship.

Thanks a bundle Dr. Denkler. How can we say to our doctors NA is respectable when there is no clear line as to how it was developed, and no study to back it up?

Anon

02/03/2005 23:41
Frances

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02/03/2005 23:41
Frances

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Dr. Denkler

Thank you so very much for your posts here. I am glad you have such skills for NA. I live in California so when my finger bends again I will call your office. It will be wonderful to take a short drive to get NA rather that flying clear across the USA. Thank you again Dr. Denkler.

Frances

02/03/2005 23:29
Montse

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02/03/2005 23:29
Montse

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Needle Ap. Fantastic


I have dupuytren. Three days ago, I went to Montpellier( France)to have Needle ap . I am VERY VERY VERY HAPPY with it.I have the hand conpletely flat.

02/03/2005 23:37
Keith Denkler MD

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02/03/2005 23:37
Keith Denkler MD

not registered

Anon

Dear Anon,
There are not different styles of NA. There may be minor differences, but the treatments are the same.
I am not self taught, I learned from my mentors. Badois likes putting coritisone in his local anesthetic mixture, I don't. Eaton has not published, so I don't know. Badois and Eaton have not done any videos or DVD instuction on NA. Why not? It would save them time from visitors.
Good point on France/Italy. There are no direct flights to Italy from SFO, so I would have to go through Paris anyway. We are thinking about November so I will stongly consider visiting then.
Besides, why not go to Strausberg, France rather than Paris. They published results in more than 300 patients?
Percutaneous needle aponeurotomy: complications and results.

Foucher G, Medina J, Navarro R.

SOS main Strasbourg, clinique du Parc, 4, boulevard du President Edwards, 67000 Strasbourg, France. ifssh@aol.com

The abiltiy to have NA done in California rather than going to France or Florida is a plus. Folks without the means can drive for care rather than flying thousands of miles.
Good luck,
I am happy to be getting the word out on TV, as it will help spread the word. However, Doctors are slow to change. I have trouble convincing hand surgeons to do hand surgery using local anesthetics with epinephrine instead of in the hospital. My research of 120 years of the literature is generally ignored and it is considered dangerous by some, so I share your difficuties with arrogant know-it-all surgeons.
Keith

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