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High Glucose and Insulin Resistance
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03/16/05 01:33
Bigk200

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03/16/05 01:33
Bigk200

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fat vs. thin

I don't think I'm willing to endorse the idea that thin people get Dup's more often than obese people. I've devoured just about everthing I could find on the web and elsewhere, and I have never come accross this kind of a finding. I think we have been pulled on a tangent that could be a dead end, and could distract from the basic premise on my website that there is a connection between Dup's and the presence of an insulin/glucose disorder.

(My web site is at www.dupuytrens-a-new-theory.com)

I think People of all sizes (fat or thin) can have a problem with their insulin/glucose system. And I think people of all sizes can develop Dup's.

03/16/05 01:44
Andrew 
03/16/05 01:44
Andrew 
Fat and thin

Hi Kevin - The fact is that TWO studies (the Reykjavik study and the Swedish study, both of which I quoted in my posting of 3/13/2005 earlier in this thread) concluded that people with Dupuytren's are on average thinner than people of similar age without Dupuytren's. This doesn't seem to me a red herring, but an interesting fact which any theory about Dupuytren's needs to explain.

Hi Sheri - If my speculation is correct that the development of Dupuytren's nodules is in some way connected with excessive blood sugar, then a diet that would help (or at least not aggravate) Dupuytren's would be one that prevented the level of sugar in the blood from surging too high. Although type 1 diabetes cannot be cured with diet, is it not true that even with type 1 diabetes there are certain things which will increase the need for insulin and other things which will decrease it? My guess is that any regime that decreases the need for insulin will also be helpful for Dupuytren's. However, I must emphasise that I am not an expert on diabetes - don't do anything that your doctor doesn't advise!

03/16/05 01:21
Anon

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03/16/05 01:21
Anon

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Fat or Thin (continued)

I'll say it again, the fat/thin theory does not hold true with my famiy members. Infact, all dc sufferers in my family are obsese.

Anon

03/16/05 01:23
Anon

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03/16/05 01:23
Anon

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Fat or Thin (continued)

Correction, my brother in-law is not obese, he works out regularly, but all other family members fall into that category.

Anon

03/16/05 01:30
Andrew 
03/16/05 01:30
Andrew 
Fat or Thin (continued)

Anon - The studies do not say that fat people never get Dupuytren's or that women never get Dupuytren's: they say that if a person has Dupuytren's, that person is more likely to be thinner than average, and more likely to be a man. In Iceland 8 out of every 10 Dupuytren's sufferers are men. But obviously there are exceptions.

03/16/05 01:39
Anon

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03/16/05 01:39
Anon

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More puzzles with fat and thin

Hi,

I'm still having a hard time buying the fat/thin issue. I leaning towards the belief that Icelanders get more excersise and eat less processed foods therefore are thinner/leaner.

Anon



03/16/05 01:16
Andrew 
03/16/05 01:16
Andrew 
More puzzles with fat and thin

Anon - The Iceland study does not say that the Dupuytren's sufferers are thin compared with the average westerner but thin compared with the average Icelander. What they did was take 2165 Icelandic people aged 46-74 at random and examine them: they found that 287 of them had signs of Dupuytren's, the other 1878 did not. The 287 Dupuytren's sufferers were significantly thinner on average than the 1878 non-sufferers. (To read the abstract of the study, type 'Reykjavik Dupuytren's' into Google.)

By the way, Dupuytren's is common not just in Scandinavian countries. A study in Bosnia (Google 'Bosnia Dupuytren's') found an even higher prevalence there.

Another interesting finding is that in Dupuytren's victims who have diabetes, according to a study carried out in Finland (Google 'Finland Dupuytren's), the number of diabetic women with Dupuytren's is equal to the number of diabetic men. (In the population as a whole Dupuytren's is 4 to 6 times more common in men.) The explanation may be that once a person develops diabetes, there is so much excess glucose swimming around in the blood stream that the fat cells (even if there are a lot of them) won't be enough to mop it up.

03/16/05 01:23
Bigk200

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03/16/05 01:23
Bigk200

not registered

fat vs. thin

I'll just repeat what I said earlier, I think fat OR thin people can develop dupuytren's, and/or have a disorder in their insulin/glucose metabolism.

If the theory presented in my website is correct, then for most folks, the real issue is their INSULIN RESISTANCE rather than the actual amount of insulin or glucose floating around in their systems. (Although I do agree that excess glucose can cause all kinds of problems, and might be a co-factor in the progression of dupuytren's.) And for those folks who are type I diabetics, their issue would be LOW levels of insulin.

In the big picture, it is the amount of insulin AT THE CELLULAR LEVEL that matters! If the person is insulin resistant, then they will have low amounts of insulin at the cellular level, and Type I diabetics will often have occasional low levels of insulin at some point between their injections.

(People in northern climates tend to drink a lot of alcohol... perhaps that was many people in the Iceland study were described as thin... I've noticed that quite often alcoholcs can be very thin.)

Without the luxury of doing more study on those persons in the Iceland study to prove and or disprove the various theories being presented here on this board, I don't think we are going to arrive at any real definitive conclusions.

03/16/05 01:43
Bigk200

not registered

03/16/05 01:43
Bigk200

not registered

One more thing: Vitamin D

The Bosnia study stated the following:

"Ethnic differences in the prevalence of Dupuytren's disease have been documented. However, as there are no true ethnic differences between the populations of Bosnia and Herzegovina, only religious and social differences, it is surprising to find lower prevalence among Bosnian Muslim than Bosnian Serb and Croat men. It is possible that this is a spurious finding, particularly as no such difference was found among women, but it may also be due to some, as yet undetermined, difference in social factors."

The authors of this study were curious why Muslim men had a lower incidence of Dupuytren's, because Muslim women have the same rate of Dupuytren's as the non-Muslim men. I think I know the reason for this.

Muslims in Bosnia are probably genetically less susceptable to developing Dupuytren's disease (even though the author says that their blood-lines have been intermingled to some extent), but their women probably get it at the same rate as non-muslim's (who are genetically predisposed to developing Dupuytren's) because they wear a full covering over their entire body. The only natural way for the body to produce vitamin D is by being exposed to the mid-day sun, and my website explains the connection between low vitamin D and insulin resistance.

You can read about vitamin D and insulin resistance by checking out my web site (www.dupuytrens-a-new-theory.com)

03/17/05 01:09
Andrew 
03/17/05 01:09
Andrew 
Diets for reducing blood glucose

Sheri G - Reading around a bit further I notice that some diabetics have reported good results using the paleo diet (a diet that avoids grains, beans, potatoes, dairy, sugar, much like the one I am trying at the moment: see www.paleodiet.com). One writes: "As a Type I diabetic for 20 years I have been dieting a long time. For the past 9 months I have been on your diet. I feel as if I am in the best shape of my life. My blood sugar is rarely out of control and my A 1 C has never been better."

Another, who is a type 2 diabetic with a blood glucose meter, writes: "I had used my meter to record my BG reactions to the different foods that I ate. I soon discovered that certain foods raised my BG levels dramatically and I would then eliminate them from my diet. I also eliminated almost all manufactured, processed, foods. The foods first eliminated were all grains, dairy products and some starchy vegetables, most notably potatoes."

On the other hand, a diet high in meat protein is not normally recommended for diabetics. One website writes: "One study found that 21 of 23 patients on oral medications and 13 of 17 patients on insulin were able to get off of their medications after 26 days on a near-vegetarian diet and exercise program.[Am J Clin Nutr 1990; 51(3): pp.416-20] During two- and three-year follow-ups, most diabetics treated with this regimen have retained their gains. [Diabetes Care 1983;6(3):268-73] The dietary changes are simple, but profound, and they work. Low-fat, vegetarian diets are ideal for diabetics." If one were to follow the advice on BOTH these websites and eliminate grains, beans, dairy and meat, there'd be almost nothing left to eat!

What all the websites and books agree on is that if a person wants to keep their blood glucose from rising too high, they should avoid high glycemic index foods. They all say that exercise also mops up glucose and reduces the need for insulin.

Speaking for myself, after six weeks on a diet eliminating grains, beans, potatoes, and alcohol, and doing some daily exercise, my Dupuytren's (which a while ago a surgeon wanted to operate on) seems a little better. The nodule seems less active and doesn't bother me so much, and when I put my hand flat on a surface I feel less tension in the tendons. I have also lost nearly a stone in weight. I sleep right through the night now without waking up in the small hours, and the itchy skin in certain areas of my body (a common symptom of excess glucose) seems mostly to have dried up. I feel a bit stronger and fitter. On the other hand I still get the occasional aches in my shoulder and forearm which I believe are part and parcel of Dupuytren's, maybe because I use the computer a lot.

I hope these ideas will be helpful for anyone investigating this subject.

Andrew Goodson
agdg@supanet.com

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