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Acupuncture
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06/23/09 06:34
bstenman 
06/23/09 06:34
bstenman 
Re: Acupuncture

There is an old adage that when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. Acupuncture has been shown to have benefits in specific areas of treatment but no reputable acupuncturist would advise treating cancer with anything other than standard medical treatments. Dupuytren's because it is not life threatening only severely debilitating, results in a lot of human guinea pigs who pay good money to be experimental test subjects.

One also has to realize that acupuncture was developed in Asia where Dupuytren's, a genetic disorder, does not exist. So there has been absolutely no development of treatments as compared to say France where Dupuytren's is prevalent and where NA treatment originated.

01/25/10 08:29
joeangomez 
01/25/10 08:29
joeangomez 
Re: Acupuncture

Maybe your acupuncturist really doesn’t know how to perform acupuncture. Try to contact acupuncturist Miami because I’m sure they can perform you the real acupuncture since all there therapist are very expert in performing this king of treatment without pain.

01/25/10 16:11
RogerM 
01/25/10 16:11
RogerM 
Re: Acupuncture

The world is not flat my friend. Just because you have not personally experienced something does not mean it does not exist. Treatments developed in one country also work when practised in other countries. I am shocked at such an ignorant and racist remark from you. Please do not communicate any further with me on this or any other subject.

I have been receiving acupuncture treatments for about 6 years now with almost no further progression since we began treatments. I only began this experiment after much research and speaking to other Dupytren's patients who also had successful results with acupuncture. Although I began acupuncture as an experiment, I stayed with it because the results have been fantastic for me. I have no idea if it works for everyone; but I KNOW it works for me. My doctor and surgeon are all very impressed and are very supportive of my continuing this if it continues to work. I am also investigating radiation treatments which research shows to be very promising for some people.

Don't be blind to new, or proven old, treatments. Nobody knows everything and this forum is to help us communicate our experiences good and bad and to explore treatment options. Treatments are affordable and well worth trying for anyone and if they work for you, like they have for me, continuing.

Quote:
There is an old adage that when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail. Acupuncture has been shown to have benefits in specific areas of treatment but no reputable acupuncturist would advise treating cancer with anything other than standard medical treatments. Dupuytren's because it is not life threatening only severely debilitating, results in a lot of human guinea pigs who pay good money to be experimental test subjects.

One also has to realize that acupuncture was developed in Asia where Dupuytren's, a genetic disorder, does not exist. So there has been absolutely no development of treatments as compared to say France where Dupuytren's is prevalent and where NA treatment originated.

01/25/10 16:14
RogerM 
01/25/10 16:14
RogerM 
Re: Acupuncture

Quote:



Maybe your acupuncturist really doesn’t know how to perform acupuncture. Try to contact acupuncturist Miami because I’m sure they can perform you the real acupuncture since all there therapist are very expert in performing this king of treatment without pain.



I think you misunderstood something. I am reporting VERY successful results with my acupuncturist.
My acupuncture treatment results have been excellent, with nearly no progression of the disease after nearly 6 years of treatment. I know that not all acupuncturists will be experienced with every ailment and mine wasn't. She initially contacted another acupuncturist who had already been treating someone with Dupuytren's with great success so she learned his methods and has been very successful with me.

01/26/10 07:31
newman 
01/26/10 07:31
newman 

Re: Acupuncture

Hi Roger , Australia Calling. I tried acupunture 20 years ago but it did not work for me. I would be interested on where the needles were placed and were they conventional acupunture needles? Did you have any electrical current attached ? I believe that some therapist have electronic machines to deliver acupunture.
We now have many Chinese practitioners now in OZ. Please tell us more. Regards.

Edited 01/26/10 07:32

01/26/10 17:17
RogerM 
01/26/10 17:17
RogerM 
Re: Acupuncture

Quote:



Hi Roger , Australia Calling. I tried acupunture 20 years ago but it did not work for me. I would be interested on where the needles were placed and were they conventional acupunture needles? Did you have any electrical current attached ? I believe that some therapist have electronic machines to deliver acupunture.
We now have many Chinese practitioners now in OZ. Please tell us more. Regards.



Hello Newman. Some kind of Australia Day holiday for you down there today, isn't it? Well Happy Australia Day if that's in order! Hope it's warmer than where I am in Canada right now.

When I first started acupuncture I expected that the needles would all be in my hand but that's not the case. First of all, she uses the conventional acupuncture needles with no electrical current although I've read that both are used not only for Dupuytren's but for everything they treat.

The process involves a whole body approach as the treatment assumes that if something is wrong with one part of the body that things are out of balance in your body in some way. So each appointment involves needles in various areas depending upon her assessment of what is needed to try and bring my body into balance. Typically I have needles in my ankles, legs, the affected hand (sometimes directly into the nodules, occasionally in the back of my hand), stomach, sometimes arms or shoulders and frequently forehead. The positioning of all of the needles varies depending upon what other health issues I have but we always have 3 to 5 needles in my affected hand, oh and sometimes one or two in my other hand and arm.

From what I've read, just like with almost any kind of medical treatment for any condition, people have experienced various levels of success. I don't know whether it is due to the skill of the practitioner, the stage of the disease or the receptability of the body in question to that type of treatment or something altogether different. Luckily, it has been working very well for me. However, I hope to be able to end these treatments some day so I am seriously looking into the radiation treatments that seem to be very effective for some people.

Hope that info helps!

Roger

09/14/10 01:50
bstenman 
09/14/10 01:50
bstenman 
Re: Acupuncture

I received acupuncture from a licensed practitioner who also is a licensed MD in California. The net effect of the acupuncture was to delay my receiving XRT which actually did help but after the disease had progressed a lot further than it needed to and for which I pay the price daily.

Acupuncture has it uses for pain as has been demonstrated. I know of no doctor who would proscribe it for a person with cancer or malaria or an ulcer or a broken arm. Everything has its place and it is foolish to think that acupuncture is a cure all for a degenerative disease.

If you can find a single licensed medical doctor who advises acupuncture for Dupuytren's please share their name and location.

10/26/10 21:23
RogerM 
10/26/10 21:23
RogerM 
Re: Acupuncture

I'm sorry it didn't work for you. Just like any medical treatment for any kind of disease, different people tend to get different results. Acupuncture worked to slow down the progression of my Dupuytrens for the past 6 years to the point where it almost stopped it; but not quite. But it did give me time to learn more and weight my options. I just finished my second series of radiation with Professor Seegenschmiedt in Hamburg, Germany and already have great results from the first series. But the research results clearly show that this doesn't work for everybody either. There is no guarantee with any treatment. No definate dure I'm afraid. As far as finding a medical doctor who advises acupuncture, think about that a minute. Each type of practitioner goes into their particular field because THAT is the one they believe in and feel they can help people the most with. So none of them typically tell you that a different science would be better for you. Also, our western style of medical practice is VERY new in the big scheme of things, really only advancing in the past 50 to 100 years, and has far from a stellar track record and offers almost nothing with 100% success; most treatments of any kind are far less than 100%. Acupuncture and many other medical practices have been around for hundreds, and even thousands of years, often with equal or greater (and sometimes less) success than our new western style medicine. Each person needs to decide for themselves what type of treatment, if any, they are most comfortable with based on research and anecdotal evidence. Read enough and you will find success and failure with everything.
Again, I'm very sorry that your chosen treatment, acupuncture, did not work for you.

12/07/10 22:28
bstenman 
12/07/10 22:28
bstenman 
Re: Acupuncture

My GP, Dr. Dawn Motyka, recommended acupuncture for my Dupuytren's and all it did was delay my getting NA and a XRT by 6 months during which time the disease progressed significantly. My Dupuytren's progression was not linear at all and one hand progressed far faster than the other. Saying acupuncture slowed the progression is meaningless What is important is restoring the range of motion and use of your hands.

Before my NA procedure I had difficulty getting my keys out of my jeans pocket with my right hand and opening my left hand up wide enough to grab onto a ladder. Minutes after the NA I had full use of both hands and my recovery time was 24 hours.

XRT is most effective at halting the progression of Dupuytren's and does not to my knowledge reverse the condition. For that a surgical procedure of some type is required. The problem with the procedures like acupuncture and herbal remedies and such is that treatment is delayed and the disease gets worse and the benefits of XRT are much reduced.

NA works 100 out of 100 times and it appears that the same is true for collagenase injections. There is a history of decades of use of XRT for Dupuytren's with thousands of cases. I have come across no similar results for any other treatment.

I paid $150 for a single acupuncture session that was worthless. I paid $1100 for a NA procedure that was 100% effective and I walked out of the doctor's office and a day later I could do anything with my hands will full range of motion restored.

No where in the world is acupuncture recommended for Dupuytren's which is a European genetic disorder and not something people in China would have any experience with at all. Instead we have people in the USA with hammers in search of nails and willing to try acupuncture on anything and never in a controlled setting with research subject to scientific review. The waste of money is much less a concern than the delay in getting effective treatment.

12/07/10 23:45
RogerM 
12/07/10 23:45
RogerM 
Re: Acupuncture

I'm sorry that you didn't realize any benefit from your single acupuncture treatment. Interesting though that your GP would recommend that over conventional surgery or NA.

NA is great, however, the disease continues and returns and NA will undoubtedly be needed again. Probably one of the best solutions for most people though, I agree. A single acupuncture treatment does nothing though. I received acupuncture weekly for a few months then gradually brought it back to monthly and continued that for nearly 5 years. When I saw that my Dupuytren's was still very slowly, gradually worsening, I researched radiation more and chose that. Luckily I was a good candidate and my first trreatment actually made one nodule disappear and after my second treatment my hard cords are returning to normal, the remaining nodules are softening and shrinking and my hand can now expand almost back to normal.
I only expected at best that further progression would cease but my condition is actually reversing; to some degree anyway.

So I agree with you that acupuncture doesn't appear to cure this but for me and for others, it does seem to have some effect. But many, many, continuous treatments are required and, I agree, it may not work at all for you. Same as the radiation research shows, some people had no benefit at all. Each situation seems to be unique to a degree. If there was one perfect solution this forum would not exist.

By the way, NA was developed in France but apparently works on either side of the ocean. Just because acupuncture was developed and used for thousands of years in China doesn't mean crossing a border or an ocean stops it from working. Apparently even your own GP felt it was legitimate and worth a try. Congratulations on your good results from the NA.

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