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Cold Laser Treatment
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03/28/09 18:39
jeeves 
03/28/09 18:39
jeeves 
Cold Laser Treatment

I am 63 and have had Dupuytren's for decades in my RH as a pea sized lump which stayed put. About 3 years ago it began in my LH after I took a lot of glucosamine with chondroitin, for arthritis. The arthritis improved but the Dupuytren's grew aggressively in my LH. I only found out about a potential link between these things when I investigated a trial of trans-dermal Verapamil which recommended not taking glucosamine with chondroitin along with the Verapamil.

I stopped the glucosamine immediately and the growth seemed to slow down, but recently it has begun again (LH) to the point where I now have some contraction of my little finger. Now I can't lift it off the table with the other fingers with my palm down and the cords are more obvious. Also within the last few months I've developed Peyronie's which seems to be growing at quite a rate compared to the Dupuytren's. And I have also found a nodule in my left foot (Ledderhose). I also have heart disease (stents) .. I guess I have 'the works'! (Anyone found any links between arterial plaque and these skin growths?)

I read a post here about someone's successful cold laser treatment and after digging around quite a bit, discovered a company called Meditech in Toronto (my hometown) which offers laser treatment for Dupuytren's. The director, Dr. Kahn (MD, FRCS), says he's had good results with Dupuytren's and is very confident that he can treat my hand condition successfully.

As far as I can tell, there have been no controlled trials of this treatment so far, just 'anecdotal reports' of success.

Of course while being somewhat skeptical, I am very keen to find something non-invasive and non-destructive that will help the condition. So I have decided to try a treatment program for 2 or 3 months to see if I can detect any improvement. I use my hands (and the other parts) a lot and still play music so I am highly motivated to do the best I can to work with this condition.

I thought it might be of interest to report to this forum in case there are any positive results - and even if there are not, that info might also be useful.

03/29/09 14:28
wach 

Administrator

03/29/09 14:28
wach 

Administrator

Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Hi Jeeves, please let us know how efficient your laser treatment turned out. As you say, even if there is no improvement, this is still worth noting.

Some links on this site that you might find interesting

Laser therapy: http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr...s_research.html

Potential conflict wit glucosamine: http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr..._therapies.html (pretty much at the bottom of the page)

Wolfgang

03/30/09 23:24
jeeves 
03/30/09 23:24
jeeves 
Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Thanks for the encouragement, Wolfgang.

Actually I had seen both the section on the chondroitin and the laser treatments (this got me interested in the laser). I did tell my doc about the lasers mentioned (Thor and Omega) after I found him. He claims to have overcome some of the limitations of those older technologies when he began to develop a laser therapy over 20 years ago.

The treatment at Meditech consists of 3 types of radiant energy. 2 are delivered with 'superluminous diode arrays' which are placed over the hand for about 10 minutes. These deliver low intensity monochromatic light, red and infra-red. Apparently, "The monochromatic coherent and polarized characteristics of the therapeutic light beam permit penetration of deep tissues without affecting normal cells."

The laser itself is a low intensity laser diode, a separate device like a probe, which is gently moved over the area for about 6 minutes.

After discussions at the clinic, I have rented a home unit to administer the infra-red unit myself, on a daily basis, for 10 minutes a day. Then I go in once a week for the red light and laser treatments.

I'm in the 3rd week of this setup now. It's difficult to tell any difference so far although my LH has been quite 'achy', on and off. Once I woke up in the night and the hand was quite painful for a while. I quite often find that I lose circulation in the end three fingers of my hands at night and get 'pins and needles' when I start them up again. This time instead of the pins and needles, I got just pain as the blood started circulating again.

Actually, as of today, I'd have to say that the contracture seems to have loosened up a little as I can just lift my LH pinkie off the desk, whereas I definitely couldn't do that before. Hmm .. there may be something happening.

I'm trying to be very objective about this, no exaggeration in either direction. Last week the doc thought that the nodules were a little softer, but I can't tell enough difference myself to agree or disagree.

I would love to think that the soreness and achyness might be a breakdown of the fibers rather than progression of DUP! I figure that time will be the judge and I will keep on OBSERVING - I have a while to go yet in my own little mini-trial!

.. jeeves

04/03/09 22:04
jeeves 
04/03/09 22:04
jeeves 
Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Went for my weekly treatment yesterday and the doc thinks my LH is much better. I have to agree that the lumps are now noticeably softer and less raised. This morning I woke up and felt them and was immediately surprised that the palm felt smoother. It's not so easy to notice a change when it happens slowly and continuously (like the frog sitting in water that eventually boils). But in waking up and touching my hand without really thinking about it, I surprised myself. It's definitely smoother.

So now I can say that SOMETHING is definitely happening, and it seems to be a good thing if the lumps are going down.

On the other hand (ha ha), right now I can NOT lift my little finger off the table the way I could two days ago. I can't explain this .. I was surprised when I COULD lift it up before. Don't know why this would change, but it seems it does. I'll monitor this more carefully.

.. jeeves


04/12/09 09:05
interested

not registered

04/12/09 09:05
interested

not registered

Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Jeeves--
No posting since April 3--please keep us posted--your results are very encouraging. How long will you keep doing this for? And it is one thing for the doctor to tell you he thinks that things are better and it is another that you also feel a change. It is quite fortuitous that you are in the same city as Dr. Kahn's center which was mentioned in a long time previous posting. I'm intrigued that he has had such good results on so many patients--I wish he would publish his results as there doesn't seem to be anything (at least not mentioned here) that would indicate that laser therapy works except for a few people's experience. Thanks for your information.

04/16/09 15:11
jeeves 
04/16/09 15:11
jeeves 
Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Thanks for your comments .. good to know that someone is interested - and that Interested is someone!

I'm trying to figure out what's happening in my L. hand actually. It has been quite achy .. sort of comes intermittently .. and it's sore when I push on the nodules . I do think the nodules have got softer and a bit smaller, but I'm still not sure whether the contracture part is improving or even getting worse. I'm still wondering if the pain is a sign of further growth or a repair process. I've even been wondering about my diet in the last week .. happen to have eaten a lot of raw fish (sushi) by chance, and more sugar than usual with the Easter season festivities (usually have no sugar/sweet things).

Now just last night I did my home treatment and my hand seems to have settled right down today and the lumps seem softer. I'm now doing the treatment every other day, by the way.

The doc has suggested it would be a 2 or 3 month process, and I've committed myself to stick with that timeframe just to see if I can see a real improvement. I do wish there was an accurate and objective way to measure the size and consistency of the lumps. It's so difficult to be objective and see change when you're watching it all the time.


05/06/09 16:05
hilarypeta 
05/06/09 16:05
hilarypeta 
Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Also interested. Laser treatment did not seem to help with frozen shoulder but acupuncture did.
Since September I have nodule on palm of the hand and one at last finger joint I do not use. I have a feeling everything is related to sugar which I crave. Better when not taking it. Hand less itchy. Was wondering about the collagenese treatment -any views on that? I have full range of movement but right hand(I am left handed) is weaker and middle and last 2 fingers get shaky sometimes in bed at night. Also get itchy feet which also seem fatter than they used to be.-is it all related? Only medication I take is novathyral for underactive thyroid and nodules. Am 62 also borderline diabetic and have high bad cholesterol and ovarian cyst and fibroids. I am wondering what links to what- thyroid specialist says ti is all thyroid problem linked!
Keep us informed how treatment goes. Did you try any others? Would taking vitamin E help? Good luck!

06/06/09 03:32
handy 
06/06/09 03:32
handy 
Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Can you please update us how the cold laser treatment worked for you, and if it did, specifics on how it was done, e.g. frequency and duration? Thank you!

06/24/09 22:29
jeeves 
06/24/09 22:29
jeeves 
Re: Cold Laser Treatment

I wish I had better things to report about the laser treatment.

While it did seem to soften the nodules somewhat, I could not detect any improvement in the amount of contraction, which has continued to slowly increase. I have reluctantly decided to discontinue the treatment for now as I see no point in paying out dollars if I can't detect a significant benefit. My left hand which is the advancing one, is often quite painful in the area of the nodules, mostly when I wake up in the morning.

There are a great many different settings possible with the laser .. different frequencies, square wave, sine wave etc. I did not really try these different settings in a systematic way and it is possible that I might have found a setting that did work better if I had been more systematic about the process. According to the team there, different settings work better for different people, according to individual characteristics so there is quite a bit of trial and error involved and I did not fully explore that.

However I have to confess to a certain amount of disappointment overall as I had hoped for better results and I have sort of run out of steam on this round.

06/29/09 08:26
hilarypeta 
06/29/09 08:26
hilarypeta 
Re: Cold Laser Treatment

Thanks for your views on laser treatment. I am sorry it did not work for you.
Is it just my imagination or does it seem to get a bit better in the summer warmth?

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