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Systemic Enzymes
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05/30/08 03:16
Curt 
05/30/08 03:16
Curt 
Systemic Enzymes

I am a 58 years old chiropractor and remember that my grandfather, also a chiropractor, could not open his hands fully. Around 5 years ago I noticed the same changes in my own hands and recognized it as Dupuytrens. It was particularly bothersome when I played tennis because it was mildly painful. I had become acquainted with a company that sells systemic enzymes. Their main product is called Vitalzym. Their main advocate, Dr. Wong, wrote much about the use of systemic enzymes and reduction of fibrosis. Reasoning that Dupuytrens is a kind of fibrosis I thought I would give it a try.

At the time I began the enzyme treatment I would wake up every morning with my hands contracted into a tight fist, but I would push and pull on my fingers until I could straighten them, as long as I didn't relax too much.

After two months of full dose VitalzymX, the high potency product, the contracted tissue began to soften, allowing my hands to move easily and remain fully open. This progress continued over the remaining part of the year until the contractures were pretty much gone. I have cut way back on the Vitalzym and am now on a maintenance dose. There is still the slightest evidence of where the contractures were, but my hands are no longer contracted. They remain fully open when relaxed with no deformity. In the morning my hands are again relaxed and open. My tennis game is increadible and I am happy.

By the way my brother, also a chiropractor, was three years ahead of me with his Dupuytrens and it was bad enough that he opted for the surgery. He was happy with the results, but I am happier with not having to have the surgery.
My Mother, not a chiropractor but the daughter of one, started noticing the contractures in her early 80s about the same time that I noticed mine. I started her on the systemic enzymes and the contracting fibrotic tissue also went away. She is now 86 and doing fine.

VitalzymX is pricey, but it's an alternative that has proven to be easy, non-invasive, and effective in my case. "World Nutrition" is the company that sells it. I have no financial interest in "World Nutrition" but I am grateful that they were there, on the internet, for me to stumble across. If you decide to try Vitalzym, my hope is that your results will be as good as mine.

05/30/08 18:50
Randy_H 

Moderator

05/30/08 18:50
Randy_H 

Moderator

Wrong Symptoms

"At the time I began the enzyme treatment I would wake up every morning with my hands contracted into a tight fist, but I would push and pull on my fingers until I could straighten them, as long as I didn't relax too much."

Curt,

Anyone with Dupuytrens knows that once a contraction has effected a particular joint it can't be straightened with pressure, especially back from a fist. Also, it is only with *advanced* and untreated disease that an entire hand would become contracted. You don't wake up in the morning with a fist full of fingers that you can straighten, only to have them contract the next morning. This disease doesn't work that way. Joints actually effected by Dupuytrens are far more immobilized.

Perhaps you were suffering from something other than Dupuytrens. Your symptoms simply don't fit this disease. Not even close.

05/31/08 05:16
Curt 
05/31/08 05:16
Curt 
Re: Right Symptoms

The contracture, of which I spoke, was only in the fourth and fifth digit of both hands. In my grand father it formed a thick cable of fibrosis that pulled his ring and little finger down toward the medial base of his hand. I am a diagnostician and I knew all about Dupuytren's Contracture before I saw it in my own hands. I said that it drew my hand into a fist because that's the way my hand ended up in the morning, not because the other fingers had contractures, rather because they didn't remain straight up when the 4th and 5th digits were pulled down. Since I began taking the systemic enzyme in the early stages, the contracture did not advance to the point where the joints were locked and immobile. But my brother's had begun affecting the joints, so he had surgery.

I'm not sure what your issue is Randy. You seem intent on focusing on the fist thing when there was ample evidence throughout my post that would clue you to the soundness of my diagnosis. Whatever the issue is I hope you find a solution to your Dupuytren's challenge.

My motive for writing this post is to help anyone who wants to explore a simple, non-invasive method for reducing the crippling effects of this genetic disposition. I'm sorry if I posted this too late to help you, but please allow others in the early stages to benefit from what I've experienced.

05/31/08 10:00
Randy_H 

Moderator

05/31/08 10:00
Randy_H 

Moderator

Re: Systemic Enzymes

Curt,

Again, having read thousands of posts form fellow sufferers, what you describe as the onset of this disease is highly atypical. The first symptom of a contraction
is one that can't be strengthened, not one that can, as in your case. Those who have been diagnosed with this disease can read the account of your now previous symptoms and confirm their own similarities and/or lack thereof. My guess that your self diagnosis was in error can easily judged by others who know own their journey all too well.

At the same time, we should appreciate and encourage experimentation with alternatives to Open Surgery. So far we have no conformation of anything that can be applied or taken orally helps a significant number of people. It would be terrific if you are the first to have actually found something. My enthusiasm for your solution is tempered only by the description of your highly unique early disease experience. My concern will be self-correcting by our readers who have nothing to loose but $$$ by giving your remedy a try.

06/21/08 06:02
mr smithster

not registered

06/21/08 06:02
mr smithster

not registered

Re: Systemic Enzymes

i have dup and my hand pulls into a fist at night. have had both open hand surg and na. i have cords from thumb to index finger also, besides in little and ring fingers. so yes, it is possible that the hand is drawn into a fist at night because of dup. surprised that it hasnt been mentioned. in the winter i run warm water over them to loosen the cords up and then can start to straighten my hand with stretching exercises, they never fully straighten, but become mobil enough to function(somewhat), till the next night, when they contract down into a fist again.

06/21/08 06:18
MR SMITHSTER

not registered

06/21/08 06:18
MR SMITHSTER

not registered

Re: Systemic Enzymes

KNOW THAT I TAKE A LOOK AT THE PRODUCT MENTIONED(sorry for caps), i cant understand how it could help dup. its just a simple digestive enzyme mix. you can buy all the ingredients elsewhere.

07/21/08 01:16
bstenman 
07/21/08 01:16
bstenman 
Re: Systemic Enzymes

Mr. Smithster -

You cannot understand how an enzyme can impact Dupuytren's but that is exactly what the collagenase treatment entails with the one difference being injection of the enzymes instead of them being taken orally.

At this point in time no one knows what causes Dupuytren's in the first place so it is not possible to make an exact determination of what will or will not work in terms of long term treatment to halt its progression. Their is good research on the efficacy of XRT but nothing else of which I am aware.

Much of the accepted medical wisdom was at one stage strongly dismissed by the established medical community, such as the recent acceptance of the role of two types of bacteria in stomach ulcers. Bacteria did not make sense to 99.9% of the medical community but one Australian doctor kept on with his theory which is now widely accepted.

People are willing to blindly take statins or diabetes medications based on far less understanding and research. Why is it so hard to accept systemic enzymes, even if they are not being hawed by a big pharma company. My concern would be the side affects of any systemic approach as such treatments affect the entire body and in ways not fully understood or appreciated (as with statins).

I have personally witnessed the complete failure in treating juvenile arthritis by the medical experts, first using aspirin and later drugs with severely damaging side effects when Dr. Jacobson of the Oregon University has produced highly beneficial results with the injection of DMSO, long feared by the medical community and dismissed by the drug companies as they could not patent and thereby profit by its use.

I have tried various dietary supplements an "it can't hurt so why not give it a try" basis and so far been unsuccessful. But I see no real harm in trying different approaches so long as it does not delay consideration of other treatment options such as XRT.

08/06/08 06:17
SJG 
08/06/08 06:17
SJG 
Re: Systemic Enzymes

What is XRT?


I've started taking high doses of serrapeptase, bromelian, and pancreatic enzymes on an empty stomach to see if it might help.
I've been thinking of mixing serrapeptase in dmso and applying it externally, hoping the DMSO will drive the serrapeptase into the skin. For those of you unfamiliar with it, serrapeptase is a powerful antifibrotic or antifibrinogen.

Edited at 08/06/08 06:18

08/07/08 06:56
mr smithster

not registered

08/07/08 06:56
mr smithster

not registered

Re: Systemic Enzymes

im taking also. not the VitalzymX mentioned above, cost to much and same is offered for much less. im taking FIBROZYM(same as Vitalzym, which contains SERRAPEPTASE) along with SERRAPEPTASE in cap form 3 times a day. not expecting anything, but willing to give it a shot. interested in anyone elses results. please post every month or so, i will do same. good luck

08/07/08 07:37
mr smithster

not registered

08/07/08 07:37
mr smithster

not registered

treatments

i forgot to mention, i tried DMSO a few years ago applying twice a day. i felt it had a negative effect on my dc, seem to cause pain and make cords tender and i felt it was speeding up the spread of my dc to other areas, also i wouldnt use it long term. after all, it is a chemical solvent that passes thru the skin. for me, not something i want introduced into my body long term. as far as i know, radiation/XRT hasnt been successful in more advanced cases of dc, but at least there is some research going on. just back 10 years ago there was only open hand surgery as an option. for me, NA (15 months ago i had 5 fingers, both palms done) only worked for 6 months till my dc was back to pre-NA condition. that really bummed me out. $3k for nothing, in fact the NA seemed to cause my dc to grow very aggresive, even more so than the open hand surgery i had 12 years ago. at least that lasted a good 5 years till pre-surgery condition returned, althought i would only resort to another open hand surgery as a last resort. 1 month after NA, both hands/fingers where almost completely straight and i thought it was amazing, but soon my dc came back with an attitude, so even NA isnt for everyone.

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straighten   self-correcting   chiropractor   diagnostician   surgery   experimentation   non-invasive   consideration   serrapeptase   fingers   determination   Enzymes   contracture   Dupuytrens   treatment   contracted   understanding   Systemic   contractures   antifibrinogen