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Alcohol and Dupuytren's disease
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11/08/05 01:00
Stage One

not registered

11/08/05 01:00
Stage One

not registered

ETOH and DD/DC

The study is interesting and subject to interpretation.
While I do not advocate alcohol consumption, I do recommend
that those who imbibe might best limit the amount and
frequency (moderation if not abstience.) Having said that,
it is entirely plausible (although not proved) that the
genetic vulnerability for alcoholism is closely associated
with the genetic vulnerability for DD/DC. Like height and weight, an asociation might exist; however, exceptions also
exist. I am not advocating denial (drink at any cost.) I
am saying that tee-totaling DD/DC suffers are very possibly
precisely that: potential alcoholics who never imbribe, but
do have DD/DC. The fact that heavy drinkers have more DD/DC
may, or may not, suggest that volume relates to incidence.
It might just mean a stronger expression of one or both traits. Please understand, I am not advocating drinking
as unrelated to DD/DC. I am suggesting that all alcoholics
do not have DD/DC; all DD/DC do not have alcoholism. Many
have both. Look for more than one cause/connection. It may
be that severity is a symptom, not a cause. To be on the
safe side, don't drink alcohol; however, you may still get
DD/DC. My question is, "Why?" I suspect biologic predisposition based on heredity (Viking curse.)
"What's in your wallet?"

    11/09/05 01:21
    Randy H.

    not registered

    11/09/05 01:21
    Randy H.

    not registered

    Scientific Ramblings

    Nice to hear from you Stage I.

    What you are correctly pointing out is that correlation does not *prove* causation. That bit of trivia comes from Stat 101 (which you apparently took). That is what the scientific method of randomly assigned controlled groups is all about. Unfortunately, there are many possible relationships that can't be studied in that manor. You can't take 150 Irishmen and assign 50 to abstinence for their entire lives, the next 50 to moderate consumption, and the last 50 to abuse. If you could, 30 years later we'd have scientific "proof" of the connection if the bell shaped curves of rate of Dups in each of these controlled groups showed statistically significant differences.

    That study will never happen. So what we are left with is uncontrolled evidence where the subjects may have assigned *themselves* to the groups by a third unknown and uncontrolled variable. What you are proposing is that this variable "X" causes both alcohol abuse and Dups at the *same* time. However, what you have already pointed out is the fact that many drunks never get Dups, and many abstainers suffer from it. That being the case, your proposed uncontrolled variable 'X' is quite weak, if it exists at all.

    Nevertheless. this type argument against non scientific studies such as the current one from Belgium are used all the time. "Irish drink too much" and "Irish get Dups more than most." It ain't the booze, it's the combo of genes that make the Irish.

    I'm not sure I buy it. However, what I did buy are some great new Cabs and CA Zin, now in my wine cellar. So, I hope you are right.

    For now, what's in my wallet is easily accessible because my right hand was treated with NA.

      11/10/05 01:05
      Stage One

      not registered

      11/10/05 01:05
      Stage One

      not registered

      Viking Curse

      Randy, Unfortunately, I have no clue what you are talking about. I never took a course in statistics. My point is that DD/DC is much more subtle than drug, alcohol mediated. Focusing on (possible) co-factors may take one away from the primary search for the underlying genetic cause. The Vikings may have sown more than one seed. We
      do not all get the triple crown; likewise, we do not all
      get seizure disorders or alcoholism. Something is at work.
      I apologize if that is obvious; some posts suggest that
      DD/DC is self inflicted by meds or alcohol. Meds do not
      cause the seizures; alcohol does not cause alcoholism.
      One has to have a predisposition or injury (DNA.) Likwise,
      home remedies are unlikely to alter DD/DC's course. That
      is just my opinion, not "truth." Enjoy your Cabernet; make
      mine a Petite Syrah/Cote du Rhone.


        11/10/05 01:39
        Randy H.

        not registered

        11/10/05 01:39
        Randy H.

        not registered

        Stage One

        Cheers

          12/14/05 01:01
          ed

          not registered

          12/14/05 01:01
          ed

          not registered

          dd

          i have dd, 17yrs ago my soles of my feet were operated on, no problem, today, i am a drinker, and i think, it has a c0rrelation, alcohol afects the liver,the liver is a filter,for toxins,if the liver dont work,you can get dd, i beleive, i smoke also,i have dd in my hands now, i am 61yrs old,my left hand is getting worse, when i drink, my dd flairs up, burns, and is sore,i have been contoling this with, vitamin regimin for 20 yrs,and it helps,also fish oil. flax seed oil, and e, i soak my hand in hot water every 2 days for 25 mins, also rub, flax seed oil on my hand, and cover with a rubber glove every other night, all night long, it seems to help, also b6, helps greatly,. good luck, ed

            12/14/05 01:36
            Larry 
            12/14/05 01:36
            Larry 
            B6

            Hi Ed,

            You are the second person to mention B6 helping their DD.
            How long have you been taking it?
            How much do you take (mg per day?)
            and do you take it every day?

            thanks in advance

              01/16/06 01:46
              lewakins@earthlink.net

              not registered

              01/16/06 01:46
              lewakins@earthlink.net

              not registered

              Drinking

              Perhaps we should consider that a lot of our ancestors in northern Europe had, and have, a fondness for alcohol.
              Two branches on the same genetic tree, so to speak?
              They don't call it Scotch for nothing.
              Could be adaptation, making it harder to get your hand around a bottle.
              Lots of good stuff about NA, no real good surgery fans. I've had two surgerys. One 15 yrs ago at age 50 for left ring and pinky, and one 3 weeks ago for left index PIP. Both were very successful, fully functional on first operation, and apparently so on the recent procedure.
              I'll have to have the right hand done down the road, so I hope they make progress in other procedures so I don't have to stay off the golf course for so long.(wife agrees)
              Most Docs seem to consider NA as at best an inferior choice, and at worse a hoe-axe.
              Maybe people with sucessful surgery don't post to forems?
              thanks, Baron

                06/19/06 02:20
                JoAnn McCarley

                not registered

                06/19/06 02:20
                JoAnn McCarley

                not registered

                Dupuytren and Alcohol

                Im 63 yr. old woman who does not drink and have the nodules in both hands which cause me much dis comfort,doctor says surgery is recomended,the right hand is worse and ring finger is stuck in position and wont straighten out .Only had this show up two years ago,no Vikings that I know of .

                  06/19/06 02:55
                  Randy H.

                  not registered

                  06/19/06 02:55
                  Randy H.

                  not registered

                  You have Options

                  Joann,

                  Heavy drinking is simply a risk factor for Dups, not a cause. If your finger is bent as much as 30 degrees and increasing, surgery will be needed. Unfortunately the only type of surgery your doc will recommend is a fully invasive Open Surgery known as a "Limited Fasciectomy". See Dr. Eaton's web site for an explanation of the far less invasive approach known as "NA".

                  see: http://www.handcenter.org/newfile16.htm

                  Eaton will be presenting information about this new procedure in September at the next convention of the American Society of Surgery of the Hand. That's likely when and where your surgeon will become more informed.

                  Don't have the full surgery without *first* checking out the noninvasive option. I think it's worth a plain ride if that's what it takes for you. At least now you know.

                    06/19/06 02:29
                    Red

                    not registered

                    06/19/06 02:29
                    Red

                    not registered

                    Drinking

                    I enjoy a drink now and then. I start the day with a bloody mary. Mid morning I have a cocktail or two. I like to drink wine with my lunch. Mid afternoom starts the Happy Hour. I have up to half a dozen cocktails. More wine with dinner of course. I end the evening with a stiff one or three.

                    I have NA three years ago. My fingers are still straight and I am doing fine.

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