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Needle Aponevrotomy experiences
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11/13/2002 23:48
Gary Evans

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11/13/2002 23:48
Gary Evans

not registered

Fasciotomy available everywhere

I think you are looking past what I said. A person CAN GET a fasciotomy in any major city in the U.S. or Europe. It is basically the same procedure as NA. The cord gets popped, no diseased or susceptible tissue is excised and you go home. Recurrence is a much greater probability than a limited fasciectomy. In the 1800s and after it felt that by just popping the cord was not a satisfactory procedure to slow down the progress of DC. As many have said previously, each person has a different situation so it is a personal decision. If you prefer a fasciotomy or NA it is available, go for it.

Are you faulting the medical industry worldwide or just the U.S.? If you want a fasciotomy, you can have it in about any major city in the world. There is no "trauma" to a fasciotomy if that is what you desire. We have, probably, more (or as many) choices in the U.S. than anywhere in the world for medical assistance. We don't know the particular problem for the person who had several operations so I can't comment on that. For what we know, his condition might not have made him a candidate for NA. If he could have had NA, he also could have had a fasciotomy anywhere.

Gary

11/17/2002 23:18
Suffering from surgery

not registered

11/17/2002 23:18
Suffering from surgery

not registered

NEEDLE APONEVROTOMY

COPIED FROM THE FRENCH FORUM:

"I don't often post to forums, but you seem to have 1 agenda, that of being a proponent of surgery. Now you fear that your surgeon clients will lose business to the NEEDLE procedure, so you are now suddenly advocating the use of FASCIOTOMY.

The procedure is questionable, since the US surgeons have no experience and will be severing tendons, as well as causing damage to nerves.

Personally, I would still opt for a thoroughly experienced NEEDLE physician that has had experience with hundreds of hands, rather then have a local Doctor with scalpel in 1 hand and textbook in the other operating on me.

Where were your surgeon friends when we pleaded for a less invasive procedure? Probably in their counting house with ears plugged."

11/17/2002 23:50
Gary Evans

not registered

11/17/2002 23:50
Gary Evans

not registered

Needle Aponevrotomy

Obviously, the person who posted did not know what they were talking about. Hard to respond to a comment like that. I am searching for relevant answers to relevant questions. Trying to find someone with more knowledge of the procedures to discuss this with.

Fasciotomies and fasciectomies are done hundreds of times per week in the U.S. and world by very talented people.
Gary

11/17/2002 23:21
Suffering from surgery

not registered

11/17/2002 23:21
Suffering from surgery

not registered

let~sq~s get real

Gary,

HUNDREDS of times per week????

Please document your information. I have queried many surgeons and they don't even know what I am talking about.

In the future,I will refer them to you for training.

11/18/2002 23:39
jim h

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11/18/2002 23:39
jim h

not registered

let~sq~s get real

Spend a few minutes searching the web for 'palmar fasciotomy' and 'palmar fasciectomy' and you'll find that both are well-defined procedures performed regularly by hand surgeons all over the U.S. Read a little further and you'll see that fasciectomy is generally favored because of recurrence statistics, although good data is hard to obtain because patients may or may not decide to return for further treatment. There is extensive literature describing these procedures and some of that is also available via the web.

Among the hundreds of hand surgeons in the U.S. who perform these procedures there are of course differences of opinion. But they're educated, licensed, and subject to peer review and oversight by insurance companies. The suggestion that they're all greedy hacks with little understanding of what they're doing is just ridiculous.

My understanding is that the collagenase treatment is essentially just a non-surgical equivalent of NA or a fasciotomy. Collagenase dissolves the type of collagen making up the DC bands. Enough collagenase is injected into the band to weaken it to the point that it can be snapped mechanically. Whether the recurrence rate is lower with this procedure probably remains to be seen.

11/18/2002 23:53
END of DISCUSSION

not registered

11/18/2002 23:53
END of DISCUSSION

not registered

NA

I did not intend to become embroiled in another unproductive discussion that seems to periodically erupt with many of Gary's one sided postings.

In all actuality, the problem is that most physicians do not want to perform the Fasciotomy procedure because the insurance companies will not pay as much as they do for full blown surgery, however they will do so rather than lose the patient. In addition, Gary's claim that NA is a blind procedure as compared to Fasciotomy is ridiculous. Both are virtually blind methods, but how does he rationalize the fact that more damage has been done with surgery with the open hand in full view of the surgeon?

PLEASE EXPLAIN that to those with crippled hands that have followed his advice to "FIND A GOOD SURGEON".

As for the APO procedure: It is performed with a thinner needle than a palmar or digital nerve (25G or 26G) and the anesthesia is light, thereby making the slightest touch upon the nerve felt by the patient. The position of the needle is immediately relocated away from the area, not so when an incision and procedure is conducted with a sharp scalpel.

The above information was gathered from this very BTC forum in June 2002 and later expunged.

In the event that you care to have an open mind, then proceed to the following site for corroboration:

http://www.dupuytren.org/wwwboard/messages/825.html

11/18/2002 23:41
Gary Evans

not registered

11/18/2002 23:41
Gary Evans

not registered

Fasciotomy

I go back to my original queustion which hasn't been answered yet. Why would a person go to Europe to have NA when they can have a comparable procedure (a local fasciotomy) in any major city inthe U.S. or world?
The procedures produce the same results of severing the pre-teninous Dupuytren's cord without removing any diseased tissue. It (local fasciotomy) is done everyday throughout the U.S. and world as a very safe procedure by extremely talented people. One of the first steps of a local fasciotomy is to find the nerve before proceeding. It is very rare that there are severed nerves in this procedure by a micro surgeon.
This procedure is used for older patients who cannot or would be better off not going through an invasive surgery. The fasciectomies are used for younger patients because there is less chance for recurrence than NA or a local fasciotomy. For the person who is afraid of an invasive or is willing to have procedures regularly repeated, then either NA or a fasciotomy might be for them, but why go to Europe?
Gary

11/19/2002 23:36
Also Tired of You

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11/19/2002 23:36
Also Tired of You

not registered

Here~sq~s your answer, Gary

You were asked to document your statements.

You continuously evade and avoid issues. There are few surgeons qualified to perform the procedure you have now been told to advocate.

The one thing you have accomplished is to have driven the knowledgeable sufferers away from the forums. Read Miriam's entry in today's forum and learn what your B/S does to the unwary.



11/19/2002 23:26
Kristen 
11/19/2002 23:26
Kristen 
Here~sq~s your answer, Gary

Gary – I’ve resisted for some time responding to any of your posts for fear of encouraging more postings. However, I’ll cheerfully answer your question if you’ll promise to go away and give us all a break from your “joy of surgery” diatribes. Why would someone go to France and have NA instead of a fasciotomy?? Essentially, in your MANY postings, you’re questioning why anyone would have NA for any reason instead of taking advantage of fine U.S. trained surgeons.
After consulting 3 hand surgeons locally about my VERY aggressive case of DC, all offered only the standard “chop up your palm with a zigzag incision and remove the cords.” I visited dozens of hand surgeon web sites and they all offer the same procedure. Your assertion that a simple fasciotomy is done all the time in the U.S. is a bunch of crap. Assuming it is available, my health insurance has a $500 deductible; NA cost me $150. The cost of the trip to Europe is irrelevant since I’m going to vacation there with or without this disease. If you have to ask “why go to Europe”, then please don’t go –President Dubya has already set back French-American relations in major ways and your arrival would probably be the final nail in the coffin.
All 3 hand surgeons told me that after surgery it would probably recur in my case and all 3 gave me the brochures explaining that 5% of people who undergo hand surgery never fully recover – that there can be permanent stiffness, numbness or swelling. One chance in 20 offers odds unattractive to me. One of the hand surgeons viewed a videotape of the NA procedure, called me afterward and told me I’d have to be crazy to let him cut on my hand if this procedure was available to me.
I have had NA twice and would cheerfully do it a dozen more times. I vacation in France regularly, so taking half an hour out of my day for a simple procedure to get my fingers straight again is no big deal. You talk about being able to play golf only 2 and a half months after surgery. Well, after NA, you can play golf that afternoon – though why you would go to Paris to golf, I haven’t a clue. My only reason to grip a golf club would be to whomp you in the head, were you nearby. Kristen

11/19/2002 23:39
Gary Evans

not registered

11/19/2002 23:39
Gary Evans

not registered

Needle Aponevrotomy

Kristen,
First, can anyone answer the question without being totally derogatory towards surgeons or the medical industry in general? Or why do you have to attack me just for asking the question? Why be so defensive? What is wrong with discussion of the subject without talking about, "whomping someone in the head" with a golf club, who asks a question? Why does support for NA provoke anger toward surgeons and the medical industry? Do you have the same distain toward heart surgeons or brain surgeons? Or is it just hand surgeons? Do you despise the AMA also? Do you have this anger toward hand surgeons worldwide?

Secondly, you say you are willing to go to France a dozen times. That is my question. For most people, they are not willing to go to France a dozen times to have this procedure done. The cost of the trip,lodging and food is very relevant for anyone not going there to vacation. You are talking a very expensive situation. I am asking this for the average person, not someone like you. I have no problem with you wanting to go to France to have NA. I have no problem with anyone having NA. It is not the perfect procedure that many would like to believe. We have read often that contracture is not brought back to 0 degrees. We have read often that there is a rapid recurrence problem.

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