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Needle Aponevrotomy experiences
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11/11/2002 23:42
tOm

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11/11/2002 23:42
tOm

not registered

Name

Gary, can you post the authority's name?

11/11/2002 23:49
Gary Evans

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11/11/2002 23:49
Gary Evans

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Needle Aponevrotomy

No, I didn't ask permission to post. I thought it was great that he returned two emails to me. He is a worldwide author on the subject of Dupuytren's and has a book coming out this month that you will be able to purchase for $299.00.

11/11/2002 23:56
toM

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11/11/2002 23:56
toM

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Name

So, after looking on amazon.com, I assume you're either referring to Peter Brenner or Ghazi Rayan. Did he mention or claim to have any statistical data comparing the reoccurence rates between varying procedures?

11/11/2002 23:02
Gary Evans

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11/11/2002 23:02
Gary Evans

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Needle Aponevrotomy

Like everyone else, you'll have to buy the book.

11/11/2002 23:20
TOm

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11/11/2002 23:20
TOm

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NA Question

I'll assume that means no. Gary, why is it so hard for you to directly answer a simple question?

Seems to me that the only way one could compare the reoccurence rate would be through statistical analysis of individuals that have had some type of medical intervention. That would mean polling practitioners & patients that have practice/undergone the various methods.

Since this board covers a fairly wide base. I'd like to pose the question: How many of you have been polled regarding your experience/reoccurence rate with NA?

Somehow, doubt that few if any have been.

11/11/2002 23:01
Gary Evans

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11/11/2002 23:01
Gary Evans

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Needle Aponevrotomy

I only asked his opinion. He didn't document his opinion.
I think it is generally accepted that recurrence is higher for NA and fasciotomies. Moermans(1997)(University of Brussels) in his thesis, referred to Astley Cooper (1822) as performing closed fasciotomies, "by the subcutaneous division of a band with a small bistoury introduced through a small wound in the skin. As the frequency of recurrence became apparent, simple fasciotomy was progressively given up except by some surgeons if the band is well defined and bow-stringing (Colville 1983,1990)." "As for simple fasciotomies, the concept of limited fasciotomy was to become unpopular because of the likelihood of recurrences."(Moermans,1997)
The recurrence rate is the reason Moermans advocated the use of Segmental Aponeurectomy rather than the simple fasciotomies and in preference to the Radical Palmer Fasciectomy which is not often used anymore.

Gary

11/12/2002 23:27
Gary Evans

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11/12/2002 23:27
Gary Evans

not registered

Procedures

I have read that information also. I think it is important to keep searching why these opinions differ. You refer to the AMA, it is not just the U.S. that has the opinion of faster recurrence with NA and fasciotomies. The 5 year rate of recurrence (greater than 50%) as stated by Badois (1993)for limited fasciectomies is not considered accurate by any published study to date. Even Moermans (1997) says, "the first operation, WHICH IS FOR MOST PATIENTS THE LAST ONE, must be as simple as possible to keep the complication rate very low." That is his reason for proposing segmental aponeurectomy when this operation is technically feasible. I have just been reading, "The Value of Fasciectomy in the Surgical Approach of Dupuytren's Disease", in the Romanian Journal of Hand and Reconstructive Microsurgery (2000). The results of their study: "Analyzing the results we observe that there were no relapses after 4 years follow-up of the 100 patients, and that the local minimal complications did not compromise the final results." While this was a smaller study than those done by Hueston, McFarlane,Moermans,Tubiana and others, it is supportive.

There seems to clearly be a place for NA as an acceptable (my opinion) procedure. Especially for people in Europe who wouldn't have a problem repeating the procedure several times. Also, for those whose conditions fit within the parameters of NA, and for those who are adverse to a surgical procedure. I personally (at this time), would lean towards Moerman's Segmental Aponeurectomy as the first procedure

I am trying to close the gap on why there is this diverse opinion in the medical community. I feel that it is a good learning exercise. More knowledge only helps. Besides Dupuytren's is a very interesting disease.

Gary

It still comes down to the question of the removal of diseased tissue and how significant that is in relation to recurrence.

11/12/2002 23:41
TOm

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11/12/2002 23:41
TOm

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NA

I think, in all honesty, the larger question, since it is a given that reocccurence is high, why doesn't the health consumer in the US have a choice in the procedure they choose?

For many other ailments the informed consumer can make a choice for treatment options. For example, I have allergy problems for which there is a wealth of medical choices available. I'm sure each choice has its defenders & detractors.

Why should people have to settle for a medical procedure they do not want, simply because the one they do want is only offered in Europe? To believe that the AMA or its members possess a wisdom or knowledge that should be unquestioningly obeyed is total folly. They are as much (if not more so) as anybody political & profit oriented.

I'm sure this is just a microcosm of issues that the AMA faces. But one unfortunately, myself and our afflicted brethern face.

So the larger issue, rather than what is best, is why the US medical establishment does not provide a less invasive option with much less chance of complications.

11/12/2002 23:02
Gary Evans

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11/12/2002 23:02
Gary Evans

not registered

Procedures

I think you or anyone in the U.S. can get a simple fasciotomy in about any major city in the U.S. It is a very simple procedure and does exactly the same thing as needle aponevrotomy, it severs the cord and that is all.

My surgeon casually said he could do that right then when he examined the cord. I don't know if he was serious or not, but he did say that he usually did that procedure for older patients. In his experience, the recurrence for a younger patient was greater with just the fasciotomy, rather than the limited fasciectomy. The first surgeon (retired from surgery) that I went to for consultation said he could pop the cord right there in his office. Caught me off guard when he said that, then I realized he was retired and wouldn't/couldn't do it.

11/13/2002 23:48
TOM

not registered

11/13/2002 23:48
TOM

not registered

NA

Gary if that were the case, nobody would be going to Europe for NA.

Once again, I'm left with amazement at your inability to fault the medical industry for their lack of viable options for the DC sufferers. Read a recent post by someone that they are having their 9th fas.. What a stinking shame that NA wasn't available for this poor soul.

Instead of deriding NA, your abundant energy could be better spent lobbying a rigid inflexible medical industry that will not offer a variety of treatments. Unless of course, you have an interest in seeing that alternatives are not offered.

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