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How important is physical therapy after NA?
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12/10/2011 13:34
hammer 
12/10/2011 13:34
hammer 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

The ziaflex wiil soften your scar tissue.My right hand after the two surgerys was hard as a rock.One month after xiaflex its nice and soft.Doc Frazier told me it works like this.Its like fish swimming in the ocean with sharks.Fish r healthy and not distressed the sharks leave them alone,but hurt that fish and the shark attacks.Thats what xiaflex does to the cord,then your body will attack the ruptured cord.He had to put it in them terms for me.Hes 500 times smarter.lol

12/10/2011 17:52
LubaM. 
12/10/2011 17:52
LubaM. 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

wach:
Siede effects after my Xiaflex were not very severe. I had major swelling, pretty much like Bruce describes on http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr...xperiences.html. That picture with both hands could be mine as well. I also had hematoma in the little and ring finger and into the palm. It hurt but not dramatically. Today, 10 days after the injection, the swelling is neraly gone as are the hematoma.

I have the impression that my PIP joint wants to return to the contracted position and I am still wearing a splint 15 - 18 hours per day, with breaks in between to keep my joints flexible, and I am exercising flexion. I have no idea how long the current result will hold or whether it might even still improve a little bit over time. Future will tell.

My personal concern with Xiaflex is that, once injected you can't stop it. If you missed the cord somewhat and the enzyme is leaking elsewhere you can't do anything about it. With NA when you are doing something wrong you just stop doing it. With Xiaflex you have to wait and see. But anyway, my PIP joint became fairly straight again and is now much better than before. That's what counts.

Wolfgangh
Thank you Wolfgang for your detailed response. I am very ambivalent about the use of Xiaflex for my problem small finger. From years of reading on this Forum, and from my own experience with quick recurrence after two NA's on PIP joint, I am convinced that it is the hardest to correct.

Another issue for me is that I don't have "clear, visible" cords leading to the contracted small finger, it is mostly dimples and nodules in the palm. Perhaps there are cords that are deeper inside the palm, but I cannot feel them, which perhaps doesn't make me a candidate for Xiaflex, since it has to be injected in the cord?

12/10/2011 23:27
flojo 
12/10/2011 23:27
flojo 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

Luba,

Dr. Denkler has enough experience to be able to discuss NA, Xiaflex (he calls it the enzyme), and surgery for the particular state of your disease. Not to take anything away from the other fine surgeons who consider all treatment options, but I call Dr. D "The Best in the West". When I consulted with him in July and got my 2nd NA, he thought the enzyme would be very effective on my hand and more likely to hold contracture back longer. I could not change my plans to stay in NorCal any longer even though I was staying with my grandkids (by the way, my son and daughter-in-law, too :-), so couldn't do it this time. If my contracture reaches the point where it needs release again, (which I expect) I'm thinking right now that I would probably have Dr. D do the enzyme. I didn't know it until he told me, but the cords can grow back together. Since the enzyme eats the cord, it separates more and less likely to grow back together than with NA He said that there may well be bruising, but only about 10% of patients get it really bad. It is still only about a 2-3 week recovery. That would be worth the risk to get a longer lasting release.

It might be time for you to think about consulting with Dr. D about how he sees the benefit of the different treatments for your hand. He knows Xiaflex as he has done well over 100 vials now because he had done 99 in July. He is excited about "having another tool in the toolbox" as he put it. He does NA most, followed by Xiaflex, and still does some surgeries. I know he prefers the less invasive treatments of NA or the enzyme for early interventions, but if the contracture is too bad, he does surgery. He has released 120 degrees or more. He thinks about what can be successful and goes with the less invasive.

I do think the night splint is helping. If I forget to wear it, then I do wear it I can feel the tightness. Then when I wear it consistently, it maintains. I know that could change, of course, but it is helping now.

12/12/2011 04:39
LubaM. 
12/12/2011 04:39
LubaM. 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

Hi Flora,

Thank you for your long post and advice. I certainly will consider all you said and get myself to Lankspur soon to meet with Dr. Denkler and get his opinion. I think very highly of Dr. Denkler and trust him, but every time I think I am ready to consider Xiaflex I come across a post like the one I just read here (see: today's post "Re: After Xiaflex"), and get really scared when others talk about bad reactions to the enzyme.

Except for my small fingers in both hands (my right one is very bent, my left one is barely starting to bend), the rest of the fingers are perfectly straight, and both hands lay totally flat with only nodules and dimples in both palms. There is some pulling of both thumbs into the palms, but its not bad and it doesn't interfere with my holding my brushes when I paint.

So I am very undecided...should I leave it alone until it gets worst? should I chance side effects and try the enzyme on the pinkies? One thing I wouldn't hesitate to repeat is the RT that I feel definitely stopped the progression of the disease in my left hand.

So many decisions....I really need to go see Dr. D.

12/12/2011 04:45
callie 
12/12/2011 04:45
callie 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

LubaM.,

Ask Dr. Denkler about surgery. I am curious about his recommendations. Your hand(s) sound very similar to mine prior to surgery. My little finger was 90 degrees contracted, now zero contracted.

12/12/2011 14:16
Tusk 
12/12/2011 14:16
Tusk 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

re PIP contracture in the little finger and straightening agfter a procedure....
A hand surgeon told me that surgical correction (I guess this would apply to NA or Xiaflex as well but the discussion was about open surgery) was usually lost "to some degree" several months following surgery, and the way it was explained was that is was related to issues other than recurrence of the disease.

In other words, if I understood it correctly, surgery (or perhaps correction via NA or Xiaflex) would straighten the finger but, in most cases (not all), some of the correction is lost as contracture returns to the PIP joint of the little finger based on unique biomechanical issues with that particular joint. So the disease may or may not return in that finger but there it won't necessarily stay straight. Again, this came from one hand surgeon.

12/13/2011 02:07
hammer 
12/13/2011 02:07
hammer 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

my left pinky has been fused for the last 8 years,there is a cord pulling it and a cord pulling my left ring finger.which is 90 plus degrees,pinky remains perfectly staight.have not heard much about fusing on this forum.i hear more about amputation than fusing.pinky seem to be the first to go.

12/22/2011 04:32
ChristaJones 
12/22/2011 04:32
ChristaJones 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

Physical therapy plays an important role for dupuytren patients. The physiotherapist do stretching with the application of heat and ultrasonographic waves which helps in Dupuytren contracture. Sometimes looking at the condition of the patient, the physical therapist may recommend the patients to wear a custom splint or brace to stretch the fingers further. Even performing the ROM exercises frequently relaxes the patients. And after the surgical correction of the contracture, physical therapist often take care of the wound, perform massage, passive stretching, active ROM exercises, and splinting.
Physiotherapy has become a an important tool of recovery for many diseases. The physical therapy involves the natural and fast recovery of dupuytren's contracture. The site has mentioned the complete detail about the work of physiotherapists. http://physicaltherapycolleges.org/ though physical therapy for Dupuytren's contracture consists of only gentle stretching and tissue mobilization techniques. Still it plays a major role in strengthening and mobilizing the fingers.

01/11/2012 12:20
stephenjeffrey 
01/11/2012 12:20
stephenjeffrey 

Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

LubaM.:


I believe some of us are just prone to quicker recurrence. I might try Xiaflex in the future for the small finger that had NA twice, but I am a bit scared to do it in view of the many people who have posted complications with Xiaflex such as bad bruising all the way to armpits, etc... and yet others have been very satisfied and have not had major complications...go figure...


Can you direct me to posts or articles that mention this type of extensive bruising that reaches the armpit?
What are the patients Dr's saying has happened internally when presented with this ?

Thankyou

01/11/2012 15:40
LubaM. 
01/11/2012 15:40
LubaM. 
Re: How important is physical therapy after NA?

stephenjeffrey:
LubaM.:


I believe some of us are just prone to quicker recurrence. I might try Xiaflex in the future for the small finger that had NA twice, but I am a bit scared to do it in view of the many people who have posted complications with Xiaflex such as bad bruising all the way to armpits, etc... and yet others have been very satisfied and have not had major complications...go figure...


Can you direct me to posts or articles that mention this type of extensive bruising that reaches the armpit?
What are the patients Dr's saying has happened internally when presented with this ?

Thankyou
Regarding posts on this Forum about side effects....in the search box above, type in "bruising after Xiaflex" or
"side effects of Xiaflex" and many posts will come up. There are reports of bad side effects, and yet so many are very satisfied.

For me, its a personal choice. As long as my contracted small finger remains the same (and it has for the last couple of years) I will wait until the contraction starts to get worst, which will buy me time to see if the long term results of Xiaflex are better than other procedures.

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