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Interesting articles from UK NHS
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09/01/2005 23:26
Sara

not registered

09/01/2005 23:26
Sara

not registered

Manchester surgeon

Marjorie,

Would you mind telling us the name of the surgeon in Greater Manchester who performs fasciotomy?
This is indeed an interesting development. I envisage having to have treatment again in the next couple of years (as we all know, brilliant though NA is, it does have to be repeated).
My only concern is that the list of practitioners on Dr Badois' website still does not list any UK doctors (or it didn't when I last checked a few weeks ago.
I really would be grateful for this info, if you have it.

Regards


    09/01/2005 23:25
    marjorie 
    09/01/2005 23:25
    marjorie 
    UK

    Hello Ellie.
    I went to Dr L because he was the only one I found who did NA when I searched the net some years ago when my Dupuytrens first started. When I eventually needed treatment I saw a consultant privately here and mentioned NA to him. I got the usual block and was told I would need an operation but not yet, only when the DC had progessed further. When I was considered ready for the op I was told that I had a choice of paying or, going back to my GP to be referred to the NHS. There was the usual long waiting list so I opted for private. I asked again for alternatives but was told there were none. The following day I thought about how I would be out of action for weeks if not months and cancelled the op. I decided to take the plunge and contacted Dr L sending photo's of my hand. I went to Paris in June and had the NA.
    I am going again this month to have my other hand done.
    Am I satisfied? Well, I can use my hand again and am no longer sticking my finger up my nose when I wash my face. Bliss. I am not only trying to get a refund from the NHS for the last NA and to fund my next but also to get the Department of health to send some of our surgeons for training.

      09/01/2005 23:48
      marjorie 
      09/01/2005 23:48
      marjorie 
      UK

      Hello Sara,
      Well, I have the info but I do not think it will do you much good. Mr Hodgson at the Royal Bolton Hospital does what he calls a 'simple fasciotomy' He uses a stitch cutter instead of a needle but only does the procedure for certain people. I have not yet been able to discover exactly which people these are. I am awaiting the result of the PCT Commissioning Panel on 14th September to see if they will refund the cost of my procedure in Paris. It was only when I put in my claim for a refund that I was told of Mr Hodgson and his 'simple fasciotomy'. Strangely, I was not told of this alternative when I was told I needed surgery and yes, I did ask. I have looked on the web via google for 'simple fasciotomy' and found a report from another surgeon in the UK who does it. The report stated that the SF is only used on the very elderly who would not cope with an operation. So, it semms that there are people in the UK doing a similar procedure but, only occasionally. I would not want to trust my precious hands to someone who only did the occasional. I will continue to go to Paris to my lovely DR L.
      Perhaps the Dr Badois means that no-one from the UK has been trained in Paris.

        09/07/2005 23:13
        Sara

        not registered

        09/07/2005 23:13
        Sara

        not registered

        UK

        Thanks so much for the information. I am inclined to agree with you about getting someone experienced to do the procedure. However, I am still appalled at how we are being ignored in our attempts to get NA up and running here. From what I have read this is not the only area NICE are failing in (new breast cancer drugs scandal springs to mind) Thank God for those French doctors who care about curing people rather than making money.

          10/09/2005 23:36
          marjorie 
          10/09/2005 23:36
          marjorie 
          Progress report

          I am at last making some headway in getting the Government to listen. My MP has shown a lot of interest in my progress and after seeing the pics of my hands, before and after NA, he has promised to 'look into the matter further and, table questions when he returns to the House of Commons'.
          About my claim for refund of my first NA in June and my request to be funded to go for further NA in September. My local PCT heard my case on 14th September. I am aware that my request was refused but do not yet have this in writing. Once I have the official letter from the PCT and discover their reasons for refusal, I will decide whether to appeal or, take the next step and contact the Healthcare Commission. I estimate that I have saved the NHS in the region of £4000 by having NA instead of surgery. There have been comments made that there are not many people suffering from DC in the UK. Since I have been to Paris for NA I have discovered that two of my close friends have DC but will not go for treatment because of the horrors of surgery.
          I now have two functioning hands thanks to the lovely Dr Lermusiaux.

            10/14/2005 23:47
            Frances

            not registered

            10/14/2005 23:47
            Frances

            not registered

            Hog Wash

            Not many people have DC in the UK????

            Arguments:

            NICE states clearly that DC is 'common' yet most other govts say it is 'rare'. The use of the word 'common' reflects the fact that DC originated in Europe therefore Europeans have a higher rate of DC.

            Contact NICE and ask what 'common' means then use the govt's own words against them. :-)

            If I remember correctly the Society for Hand Surgery in Britian also refers to DC as common in their literature but you'll have to check....and...maybe even a visit to recent and past British studies on DC might produce more results of doctors calling DC in Britian 'common' - providing independent corroboration.

            Perhaps you could even show that using percentages from other countries is erroneous because statistics on the DC burden to the health care system using info from other countries because those populations are not reflective of European Stats. :-)

            Please forgive my choppy writing...I'm running out the door and don't have time to edit.
            Frances

              10/14/2005 23:38
              Frances

              not registered

              10/14/2005 23:38
              Frances

              not registered

              ~sq~complications with surgery~sq~

              Hi, I have time to edit that last message. The last line should read,

              ' Perhaps you could even show that using the percentage of DC sufferers in other countries to determine costs to the UK medical system is erroneous because there is a higher rate of DC in the UK then elsewhere - something which is an accepted fact.

              So...stats from other countries regarding the burden to the heath care system do not apply. DC patients cost the UK system more because there are more patients per capita.

              Got it? Don't let them blow you off with symantics/rhetoric. :-)

              God Bless,

              Frances

                10/14/2005 23:36
                Frances

                not registered

                10/14/2005 23:36
                Frances

                not registered

                ~sq~complications with surgery~sq~

                Hi again Marjorie,

                I've had a chance to read the post about mapping the gene for DC to Chromozone 16q. Wow, a giant step forward for DC sufferers. Their article can also be used to forward your arguments for NA.

                Example:

                '... Although its cause is not completely understood, it is believed that the disease results from a defect in the Body's normal wound healing response.' Healing RESPONSE being the reason why NA can be more helpful then surgery because surgery is more traumatic.

                The article also states, '...Efforts are now underway to identify the gene itself. Once that is accomplished the next step would be to develop a beter, less invasive method of treating it.' This is a recognition less invasive techniques are the better option for DC.

                The article goes on to explain what they mean and why,
                'Standard treatment for the disease is a surgical procedure known as fasciectomy, in which segments of the palmar fascia are removed. Complications with surgery, however, are common, Nystrom said, as Dupuytren's tends to envelop adjacent structures as well, particularly the small nerves of the hands and fingers.'

                Interestingly this article states that complications with surgery are *COMMON*. I would like to know what they base that statement on....then post it here for the whole world to read because complications with NA do not seem to be common at all...at least they are not being posted here....other then relapse...but then if the disease has been positively identified as genetic....then relapse is going to occur in all cases - it's only a matter of what degree. But I digress....at this moment.... I think there is enough here for a patient to argue for the right to CHOICE of treatment..... It's not up to the gov't to choose surgery for us particularly when wound healing is a problem.

                Anyways, thos were my two cents....hope they helped. I'm swamped at work at the moment... otherwise I'd joyfully study all the people they used in their study. It's interesting to see how the big boys work.

                Take care and God Bless,

                Frances

                  10/14/2005 23:44
                  Graeme

                  not registered

                  10/14/2005 23:44
                  Graeme

                  not registered

                  ~sq~complications with surgery~sq~

                  Frances

                  IMHO surgery complications referred to are not related to NA as NA is not a true surgical process.

                    10/14/2005 23:02
                    Frances

                    not registered

                    10/14/2005 23:02
                    Frances

                    not registered

                    Shotgun Vs be-be gun

                    Agreed. It was my impression that they were refering to traditional surgery not NA when they were listed complications.

                    Frances

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