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Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet
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01/03/2014 21:02
fitzelder 
01/03/2014 21:02
fitzelder 
Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

Hi all, I am new to the forum, and since some of these threads are older, I guess I'll start a new one - it will be mostly about acupuncture.

I am 50 yrs and a female, and have DC in my left hand, (2 nodules, one cord, no contraction yet). I do experience pain - in both hands, maybe even MORE pain in the right hand that shows no sign of DC. I've been following the forum, and I'll share my story, if it may help someone, or vice versa - someone may have some help for me. I'll preface the story with my decision to pursue RT as the course of treatment since I'm in early stages and am working the case to present to my insurance now.

In the interim of the RT (if I get it!), I did a few things to "help myself". First, I quit alcohol, for while I was only drinking about 2 glasses of wine a day - my history with alcohol is tumultuous, and I am very susceptible to abuse - its like holding back a team of wild horses for me. So, I quit a year ago. I cleaned up the diet, getting rid of sugar and processed food, eating salads a lot more and smoked salmon for breakfast. I lost weight and my skin cleared up some (liver spot things that kept appearing) but my hands still hurt, and the disease progressed. About 2 months ago, I went to an acupuncturist - trained in China. She had never seen the disease in 18 years of practice. She thought it had to do with my tendons, and said tendon dysfunction was linked to my liver, in Chinese medicine. I told her it was collagen-related, and she said, "still. Its the liver". She began to treat me for liver - fyi, the treatments are not covered by insurance and are $65. They last 1.5 hours, and there are about 20 needles, front and back, only a few go in my hand(s).

Concerned by what the acupuncturist said, I had my primary care run a liver test. Test came back perfectly fine for liver, but showed I had a vitamin D deficiency and some moderate inflammation. I was prescribed Vitamin D and have been taking that now for about 3 weeks. Its made no noticeable change in my world. My tests also show a borderline case of rheumatoid arthritis. Something to look forward to! I have Hashimoto's - for what that's worth.

I continue to go to the acupuncturist - about 9 sessions now - and almost immediately since the first appt, the pain was alleviated. I go once a week. I skipped the appointment around Christmas, and again on New Years, so 2 missed appts in a row, and the pain came back. So, one way or the other, I now feel confident that the acupuncture does help with at least my pain. She prescribed me some herbal tea that she states will "melt the cords". So far, they are still there - but they've stopped growing. The pain is so bad in my hands now I can barely finish typing this - and can't WAIT to get back to her! That's tomorrow. This Chinese doctor would like to see my cords totally vanish - I told her I am only interested in stopping the progression of the disease. I believe her that I have a stagnant liver. I don't know if I believe that its caused my DC.

Other interesting experiences in the world of alt therapy involved my chiropractor - he scoffed at the idea of DC ("hey, no big deal, I had it too!") - he showed me his hand - his were just tiny little nodules now - and stated that HIS course of treatment for them was adjustments! Then he did a "hand adjustment" on me(!) and I definitely felt my hand realign - and it felt - what's the word - good? Different? In any case, it was a tangible realignment. Since I can't afford ALL the therapies, unfortunately, that's the last alignment I got. But I remain curious and won't forget the experience. Massage therapy intrigues me but haven't pursued that.

I'm not advocating any kind of therapy at this time, just relating honestly what I've been going through. There's a lot of thought on acupuncture, and I'd like to make a pitch for it that it does help - at this point, certainly with my pain, and it helps me mentally feel a little more in control. Its not enough to stop me from "putting off" the RT - as SOON as I can get that I plan to! Changing my diet and eliminating some of my bad habits may, or may not, help the DC, but probably were needed regardless.

I am, of course, devastated about this disease, and my increasing aches and pains and I'm flailing around for answers. And, as a control freak, I'll try anything. I don't care if they don't make sense, or I'm wasting time or money - it helps me feel less helpless. I'll post again as my therapy(s) continue. In the meantime, are there any other stories out there like mine? Is this disease on the rise? Does it remain obscure and European? I'm American, and believe my ancestry to be Irish and German - perhaps I am the genetic marker proving a rendevous with some Scandinavian WAY back in the day - before my time, of course! Any other experiences, good or bad, with acupuncture?

01/03/2014 23:02
GaryBall 
01/03/2014 23:02
GaryBall 
Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

Thanks for this comprehensive story.....the part I find most interesting is regarding diet.....I believe DC for many of us is In our DNA......however.....I believe we can reduce its impact by reducing our exposure to a number of factors......this includes diet.....
About 4 months ago I started a blood group diet......I was advised to make a particular effort to avoid sugar as this is regarded as being inflammatory......after years of enjoying a healthy diet .....with ocasional sugar binges I was skeptical about any positive effects.....during the 4 months I noticed nothing significant regarding DC.....good or bad.....however.....I promised myself an all out assault on the cookies for Christmas day as a treat......on boxing day I felt that I had boxing gloves on.......a major change in my hands...... This of course might be a big coincidence.......but.......I suspect there maybe something worth noting......
Good luck with your journey and thanks for the post..

Edited 01/04/14 01:06

01/04/2014 08:36
wach 

Administrator

01/04/2014 08:36
wach 

Administrator

Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

Thank you, fitzelder, for sharing your experience with acupuncture in detail! Acupuncture obviously seems to be a good means to deal with pain and as pain is sometimes associated with Dupuytren disease, this is very helful information. I share your doubts about the relation to the liver, specifically as your acupuncturist is not familiar with Dupuytren's at all and confuses cords with tendons. But as long as it helps, who cares?

You can search this forum with the "Search forum" function on the left menu. I am sure this will yield several paosts on acupuncture.

Please keep reporting your experience with acupuncture!

You are mentioning that your right hand with no signs of Dupuytren's is more painful. Is it possible that something else is causing your pain, not Dupuytren's? Dupuytren's can be painful when nodules involve nerves http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytrens_contracture.html but as you have no DD in your right hand it might be something else. I wish you that acupuncture will relieve you permanently your pain!

Wolfgang

01/04/2014 17:48
fitzelder 
01/04/2014 17:48
fitzelder 
Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

Well, the best thing we can do for each other is honestly throw out our cards on the table and spell it out - since there's still a lot of mystery surrounding this disease and I'm on a clock here, folks. Heck, I'd never heard of it before, and I only recently learned how to say it!

Diet: I too feel diet has GOT to have something to do with all this - though how much it influences things is hard to say - when I see words like "pre-diabetic" I equate that to mean sugar - alcohol or alcoholics = sugar. Insulin - whatever. Seems like quitting sugar might be a reasonable reflex in this game, just to buy some time.

Liver: When I see the word "alcohol" - I do, I think of my liver. So, I'm not saying the acupuncturist is wrong. I'm just not sold that its strictly my liver at the root here. If I had to pick an organ (gland, in this case) - I'd go with thyroid, since I have known thyroid issues. Thyroid and liver are known players in the hormonal world....and it seems I've lived a lifetime of hormonal chaos (just ask my husband). 2 hormones: IGF-2, and FGF-2 are culprits in this mess I find on my hands.....I'm secretly blaming my liver on this. In fact, I'm starting a separate thread on that......because I'm desparate for someone smart on this forum to set me straight!

Sleep: One thing I neglected to mention in my loooong post up above, was a sleep disturbance I've had a long time, that has mostly disappeared since acupuncture. A blessing! My energy levels rose, significantly. Diet, acupuncture - I've got too many of them going at once to know what really was the catalyst to help, but I'd recommend both. I think my liver may have been at the root of my sleep problems.

Vitamin D: Vitamin D deficiency has also been addressed on this forum - and I wonder how many of us would show up positive for it. That's why I mentioned it. It may be something to check. I'm dutifully taking the supplement - as well as Vitamin E.....we'll see.

Acupuncture: I'm anxious for other stories about acupuncture experiences - good or bad - and I will keep reporting on mine. I'm half-way through my treatment - I've had 9, and I probably need 20 of them, and then maintenance. The Chinese doctors are interested in my case - there are 2 doctors in the clinic, and both have spoken to me. Neither have ever seen this before. They are CONVINCED they can help me, and have warned me off choosing surgery before I've given them a chance. Both doctors are western-trained medical doctors as well - I guess they learn both systems in China.

The pain in my hands? yea, I seem to have more than is typical for the disease. It may be the rheumatory arthritis? I dunno.

01/05/2014 08:47
wach 

Administrator

01/05/2014 08:47
wach 

Administrator

Effect of alcohol

A recent publication showed evidence that already moderate alcohol consumption increases the risk for Dupuytren's. Already 2 glasses of beer or wine per day had a clearly measurable effect, see "Is alcohol consumption a risk factor?" on http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytrens_contracture.html .

Wolfgang

Edited 01/05/14 10:48

01/10/2014 15:09
fitzelder 
01/10/2014 15:09
fitzelder 
Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

Quick update: RT appears to be a no-go. The hand surgeon looked appalled when I asked him for a referral. Here's what he said: "you are suggesting that I take a BENIGN condition, and treat it with a potentially CANCEROUS remedy? You can forget about it!"......he was so upset, I didn't dare to pursue the option any further with him.

Meanwhile, I have since seen the acupuncturist, in pain, from my missed appts. Treatment was a little more aggressive than I am used to - more needles, more amplified electrical stimulation in my abdomen. But, when I got off that table, I can testify to once again being pain free, and I felt - great. My nodules unfortunately appear to have grown a little bit, so the disease progresses. No contracture.

My hand pain may be related to carpul-tunnel, and the hand doctor DID give me a referral to do some EMG testing.

So far, acupuncture remains my only option of alternate therapy. It does have indication that it is helping (though not at present curing), the condition, so its worth continuing. Acupuncture also seems to help on little side bar issues like sleep disturbance, and low energy...so, there are additional incentives to go. I am only half way through the therapy.

01/10/2014 17:28
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

01/10/2014 17:28
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

fitzelder:
Quick update: RT appears to be a no-go. The hand surgeon looked appalled when I asked him for a referral. Here's what he said: "you are suggesting that I take a BENIGN condition, and treat it with a potentially CANCEROUS remedy? You can forget about it!"......he was so upset, I didn't dare to pursue the option any further with him.
Exaggeration for effect, IMHO. I would find another doctor or surgeon who can rationally discuss options and risks with you, based on evidence, and include his own surgical specialities. Your conclusion may be the same, but at least it would be an informed and educated conclusion.

Managing the pain seems the way to continue, since you have no contracture. ... and presumably other reasons for the pain have been ruled out?

Edited 01/10/14 19:31

01/10/2014 17:52
fitzelder 
01/10/2014 17:52
fitzelder 
Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

RE: RT - The doctors reaction about RT did catch me off-guard. Disappointing, to say the least. I'll have to keep pursuing that from other angles. I still want it.

RE: EMG testing -reports from the internet are not good on that - apparently it is very, excruciatingly painful (like torture!), and all it does is confirm or deny the presence of carpul tunnel. EMG is "sort of" like acupuncture - they insert a small needle into your muscle/nerve - then shoot an electric current down that nerve, monitoring the response to see if there is a nerve blockage. As I am not fond of torture, I've cancelled my appt and instead am once again heading to the acupuncturist for options.

The CT pain I have disappears after acupuncture, and as long as I remain true to following up with treatment, I am pain free even between treatments. I have at least 10 more sessions to go. The sessions are very long - 1.5 hours, each time. And sometimes it hurts (for only a few seconds), but then its quite relaxing.

03/12/2014 16:26
fitzelder 
03/12/2014 16:26
fitzelder 
Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

Update: Acupuncture Summary. My doctors were classically trained in China, and practicing for 20 years. They had never seen DD. They felt very much that a stagnant liver, and circulatory problems, were at the root. Treatment includes 20 or more sessions - so be prepared to commit. Appts= 1.5 hours long - I learned to dread them. I was also "cupped" on my back (didn't hurt), and prescribed herbal teas ($30 pkt). Initially, at the onset of my treatment, I also had significant tendonitis pain, and various other ailments, which I didn't tell them about. As treatment progressed, acupuncture appeared to improve many of these ailments, an improvement to the overall quality of my life - so - can't complain. My DD however did progress, but only slightly.

Therefore, I can't comment to the extent that acupuncture helped (or didn't help) my DD. My fingers still flex nicely, and there is no contracture, pain is way down - so? I have 2 uncles (20 yrs older than me) who were diagnosed with DD at the same time as me and both are contracted to at least 30% and are facing down surgery options now.

Hindsight? Yea, I would still do it, but not necessarily for DD. So unfortunately, I have no answers for the folks on this thread.

Now I am heading into the "laser light" and horse linament world - and I am going to write about that in another thread of the same name. I will say I am somewhat startled by how much I like that therapy so far. I find that the laser light performs as well - or perhaps better than - the acupuncture, for pain. Cheaper, quicker too.....!

04/09/2014 17:01
davalan 
04/09/2014 17:01
davalan 
Re: Acupuncture, massage, RT, and diet

I had a good experience with collagenase. But I'm intrigued about the chiropractic. I've used adjustment for lots of stuff, neck and back, but how would that work with a fibrotic cord? what exactly is being adjusted?

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alcohol   Acupuncture   massage   comprehensive   dupuytren-online   disease   carpul-tunnel   experiences   Dupuytren   treatment   unfortunately   western-trained   Something   acupuncturist   chiropractic   collagen-related   excruciatingly   contracture   experience   therapy