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Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment
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01/13/2011 19:44
bstenman 
01/13/2011 19:44
bstenman 
Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

I have had NA and XRT 4 years ago and although my right hand is still in great shape my left hand, where the disease had progressed the furthest prior to treatment, is again contacted. In researching Xiaflex I wanted to find a doctor that also practices hand surgery as I would expect a reduced chance of complications from an inaccurate needle placement for the injection.

This is complicated as I also needed a doctor who accepted my Empire Blue Cross PPO insurance and that made for a very short list of 1 doctor in a 120 mile radius of San Francisco. Otherwise I would have had to get the doctor to inspect the hand, provide me with paperwork to submit to the insurance bureaucrats and then arranged to pay the $3500 for the Xiaflex and have it shipped to the doctor and then make an appointment for the injection.

I found 4 doctors in total that were both hand surgeons and had experience providing the Xiaflex treatments. One is Dr. Kyle Bickel in San Francisco who I was told has treated more than 20 patients. The one I selected that accepted my insurance has treated only 6 patients but worked under the doctor that was in charge of the Stanford segment of the Xiaflex trials.

What was interesting was the different responses to the entire process which varied from one doctor's office to the next. One wanted me to come in one time for the consultation, a second time for the injections, a third time for the straightening, and a fourth time for the splint. The doctor I selected, Dr. Aileen Shieu, takes care of the splinting immediately after the injection and prior to the straightening.

Unfortunately the trials were limited in numbers of test subjects due to shortages of Xiaflex and as a result only one protocol is approved at this time. So each additional injection must be done at 4 week intervals. There is also no protocol for dealing with the swelling of the hand that is the most common side effect of the collagenase. The recommendation is to elevate the hand but this is a very rudimentary and only partial solution.

I would be interested in whether anyone has used ice after the injection to moderate swelling or used something like DMSO or urea to help the body remove waste products - which is also what happens with icing (swelling impedes circulation which makes it more difficult for the body to function in this regard).

The doctor who will be performing the treatment on my hand and who worked with the people on the Stanford managed trials admitted that the number of patients is too small to draw accurate statistical references or to really know about recurrence rates and severity. In her opinion the the likelihood of needed a future treatment was about the same for a Xiaflex treatment, NA, and a fasciectomy.

From my own research over the past 4 years I would put the risk of serious side effects and complications as highest by far with a fasciectomy , and next most likely as a very distant second is the Xiaflex treatment, with NA providing the lowest risk, and all procedures depend to a large part on the experience and skill of the doctor. My reasoning for choosing Xiaflex over NA for this second treatment is that I expect the Xiaflex to provide a loosening of the entire chord instead of only sections as with NA. A couple years from now I will know whether my reasoning is borne out in reality.

01/17/2011 01:51
moondanc 
01/17/2011 01:51
moondanc 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

bstenman:
I would be interested in whether anyone has used ice after the injection to moderate swelling or used something like DMSO or urea to help the body remove waste products - which is also what happens with icing (swelling impedes circulation which makes it more difficult for the body to function in this regard).

The doctor who will be performing the treatment on my hand and who worked with the people on the Stanford managed trials admitted that the number of patients is too small to draw accurate statistical references or to really know about recurrence rates and severity. In her opinion the the likelihood of needed a future treatment was about the same for a Xiaflex treatment, NA, and a fasciectomy.

From my own research over the past 4 years I would put the risk of serious side effects and complications as highest by far with a fasciectomy , and next most likely as a very distant second is the Xiaflex treatment, with NA providing the lowest risk, and all procedures depend to a large part on the experience and skill of the doctor. My reasoning for choosing Xiaflex over NA for this second treatment is that I expect the Xiaflex to provide a loosening of the entire chord instead of only sections as with NA. A couple years from now I will know whether my reasoning is borne out in reality.

I was in the trials at Stanford and during these we were VERY specifically told NOT to use ice and to limit the movement of our hands as much as possible between the injection day and the "break" day. I was NOT impressed with the quality of the trials at Stanford nor the followup. Also, my finger remained straight for less than 1 year after Xiaflex (I had NA prior to Xiaflex and subsequent to it--in fact on the Xiaflex treated finger I had-- NA, Xiaflex, NA and another NA). If you want more info, please PM or email me.

Moondanc

Edited 01/17/11 03:52

01/17/2011 03:33
Diana 
01/17/2011 03:33
Diana 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

Hi Moondance, I'm glad that you are still on the forum. I know that you had radiation by Dr. Chang a couple of years ago and was wondering how you are doing.

Diana

01/17/2011 03:41
moondanc 
01/17/2011 03:41
moondanc 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

Diana:
Hi Moondance, I'm glad that you are still on the forum. I know that you had radiation by Dr. Chang a couple of years ago and was wondering how you are doing.

Diana

Hi Diana,
How are you doing? I seem to remember you posted 6 months or so ago that your disease was progressing? I had radiation in 10/09 after my NA and I did OK for about 8 or 9 months but it didn't stop the progression. My hands certainly feel better and I think things have slowed down but certainly have not stopped. In the meantime not only has my brother gotten DD but my partner--who has a family history--has a lump in his palm that has definitely been diagnosed as DD and has just noticed a lump in his foot. I'm not sure whether to recommend radiation for him or not--nor whether Dr. Chang or Scripps would be the best alternative. I haven't been on the forum for a month or so and I need to see how Flojo and the others who had radiation are doing--do you think it worked for you? For some reason Medicare refused to pay PAMF for my treatment so I'm not sure whether they're still doing it or not. I do think they're doing Xiaflex but at this point, I wouldn't touch it. Do let me know how you're doing.

Best,
Moondanc

01/17/2011 15:52
lori 
01/17/2011 15:52
lori 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

Moondanc,

I agree it is good to see you back. I have to say RT worked for me. No more progression. It has been 15 months I think from my last treatment and I have to say that I saw vast improvement from the 8th-12th month after treatment. I regained a lot of strength in my hand, able to use screwdriver, hold a bucket of water, chop vegetables, things like that. I did hurt it this past weekend. I was breaking up ice on the driveway and the pounding made it ache and caused the cord to become visable again. I also no longer have dry skin in the treated area.

I am greatly pleased with the outcome and very thankful for this forum. Without it, since mine was so aggressive I can't imagine what my hand would look like now.


Regards,


Lori

Edited 01/17/11 17:53

01/17/2011 15:54
Diana 
01/17/2011 15:54
Diana 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

My hand developed another lump and chord after the radiation, the new area is nearer to my pinkie. I'm lucky that I don't have any contraction yet but there isn't any way to know if it was the radiation or that I wouldn't have had it anyway at this time. (I suspect the latter).

I really can't tell any difference before or after radiation except that my hand is slightly drier than the other one. It still aches sometimes, perhaps a bit less after radiation(?)

Knowing what I know now, I would still elect to have the radiation as I hear that the dose isn't that great and the odds of it stopping progression are high.

Diana

01/18/2011 01:38
LubaM. 
01/18/2011 01:38
LubaM. 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

Hi
I am one of the patients of Dr. T. at Scripps... Had RT 11/09 on left foot (two hard, marble size nodules) and left hand (multiple nodules, dimples on the palm...but no cord or contracture).

14 months later....

Foot - the nodules are definitely smaller and softer... progression has stopped.
Hand - the nodules are smaller, softer in the area that was radiated...but...new nodules have appeared in the web between index finger and thumb... these are outside the radiated area.

Still debating what to do next.

01/18/2011 17:59
moondanc 
01/18/2011 17:59
moondanc 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

LubaM.:
Hi
I am one of the patients of Dr. T. at Scripps... Had RT 11/09 on left foot (two hard, marble size nodules) and left hand (multiple nodules, dimples on the palm...but no cord or contracture).

14 months later....

Foot - the nodules are definitely smaller and softer... progression has stopped.
Hand - the nodules are smaller, softer in the area that was radiated...but...new nodules have appeared in the web between index finger and thumb... these are outside the radiated area.

Still debating what to do next.

Hi Luba,
I was going to write to you for advice for my husband/partner and the lump in his foot. How long did you wait after the appearance of the lump in your foot before RT? As I recall, you got Ledderhose first before DD in your hands? How exactly does LH progress? (I guess I should read that forum, sigh) and do cords developDid you do the RT on both your foot and hand at the same time? I'm not sure whether it would be wise for him to go to Dr. Chang--up here and if we can convince him to use Dr. T's protocol-- or go to Dr. T. What are the procedures you are debating? As I recall, you don't have any cords?

Best,
Moondanc/Diane

01/18/2011 18:08
moondanc 
01/18/2011 18:08
moondanc 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

Diana:
My hand developed another lump and chord after the radiation, the new area is nearer to my pinkie. I'm lucky that I don't have any contraction yet but there isn't any way to know if it was the radiation or that I wouldn't have had it anyway at this time. (I suspect the latter).

I really can't tell any difference before or after radiation except that my hand is slightly drier than the other one. It still aches sometimes, perhaps a bit less after radiation(?)

Knowing what I know now, I would still elect to have the radiation as I hear that the dose isn't that great and the odds of it stopping progression are high.

Diana

Hi Diana,
Did you have the area where the new lump and cord is radiated? Since my disease is aggressive I opted to have the majority of both hands radiated. I have very little dryness--perhaps because I did both hands and am not able to compare one to another, I don't notice it. Although the disease is still progressing in both hands, my WORST area is ring finger right hand-- the finger where DD first occured and where I've had 3 NAs AND Xiaflex and the pinkie next to it--just one NA--both progressing very quickly.
Are you considering any further treatment?

So--to all-- is it my imagination or is clamshell packaging--the kind one can't get into--maybe ever-- taking voer the world and getting even more difficuklt to open?

Moondanc/Dane

01/18/2011 20:21
LubaM. 
01/18/2011 20:21
LubaM. 
Re: Selecting physician for Xiaflex treatment

moondanc:
LubaM.:


Hi Luba,
I was going to write to you for advice for my husband/partner and the lump in his foot. How long did you wait after the appearance of the lump in your foot before RT? As I recall, you got Ledderhose first before DD in your hands? How exactly does LH progress? (I guess I should read that forum, sigh) and do cords developDid you do the RT on both your foot and hand at the same time? I'm not sure whether it would be wise for him to go to Dr. Chang--up here and if we can convince him to use Dr. T's protocol-- or go to Dr. T. What are the procedures you are debating? As I recall, you don't have any cords?

Best,
Moondanc/Diane
You remember correctly... I got the LD a very long time ago. It started years ago (don't even remember when) with one small nodule on the bottom of my left foot in the middle of the arch. Because I have a high arch, luckily it never bothered me for walking. But I had constant burning and itching... eventually the one nodule got harder and bigger, and then a second nodule developed right next to it.

All was compounded because I also had plantar fasciitis in the same foot...multiple cortisone shots in the heel...I even once tried a cortisone shot in the LD nodule (painful !!!!!) but it didn't help at all... Eventually the plantar fasciitis went into remission...

So in Nov. 09 when I decided to do RT for my left hand (where I had progressive DD disease, but at early stage, without contracture)... I thought to do RT for my foot at the same time, even though my LD was not bothering me, but I was worried about the second nodule appearing and the signs of progression.

I loved Dr. T. , his staff and the whole LaJolla experience (LOL)... even though my DD on the hand has started to progress in areas outside of the radiated area (new nodules have appeared on the web between index finger and thumb)... I'm thinking of going for a consult again with Dr. T. and discuss doing radiation on the area of the hand that has not been radiated.

My debating of procedures relates to my other (right) hand ...where I have a badly contracted pinkie, including a boutonniere deformity in the DIP joint... I've had NA twice and both times it came back after six months... waiting to see long term results of Xiaflex....

Edited 01/18/11 22:23

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