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Xiaflex today
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08/12/2010 23:50
coachG 
08/12/2010 23:50
coachG 
Xiaflex today

Sitting here trying to type 8 hours after my Xiaflex injection...

Right ring finger PIP joint was the injection site. Finger & surrounding area is very swollen & painful. Injection itself wasn't bad, quicker & less painful than NA. Tomorrow may be different, we'll see!

My Dr. (Scott Hutson in Walla Walla, WA) is new with the procedure, but because of insurance & out-of-network costs I decided to stay in-network. I'm his 3rd patient. As I visited with him I told him I was having RT on my left hand. His thoughts are that radiation can be scary. But, he didn't pass judgment & wished me luck with it. He doesn't do NA, but seemed intrigued. I've had NA on the hand he's working on (3 procedures + a surgery over 10 years time). The last NA procedure in mid July didn't provide much relief which pushed me towards Xiaflex.

In any event, I will post tomorrow after my release.

08/13/2010 13:26
dave t

not registered

08/13/2010 13:26
dave t

not registered

Re: Xiaflex today

Glad you had the xiaflex. Best wishes.

I have xiaflex injection and manipulation in June with really good results. Going back for second injection in mid September. I have considered radiation therapy but don't like the odds of radiation related problems down the road. Will investigate further.

But, best of luck with the xiaflex. Keep posting.

08/13/2010 20:31
PhilipHa1 
08/13/2010 20:31
PhilipHa1 
Re: Xiaflex and the risks of radiotherapy

Dave,

I would be interested in what you feel are the 'odds with radiation related problems down the road'?

As a proponent of radiotherapy I am concerned if I hear that patients are concerned about the risks of radiotherapy. Many rumours are spread about the risks of radiotherapy without quantification. The paper provided on this website http://www.dupuytren-online.de/downloads...20Dupuytren.htm attempts to quantify this risk, and concludes it to be very low, in addition there have been no recorded cases of any secondary tumours as a result of radiotherapy treatment of dupuytrens or ledderhose. I feel that sometimes these risks are overstated by health professionals who have vested interests in alternative treatments without rational justification. Clearly in all circumstances, as a patient, it is your personal judgement as to which treatment is best for you, but.....I think this judgement needs to be based on facts.

As a Dupuytren's sufferer, albeit with no progression following radiotherapy 11 years ago, I am also a proponent of patient choice, especially any alternative treatment to surgery, and in particular if it provides better results. Hence, I am also a proponent of Xiaflex, but am waiting to see its long term impact, my only concerns is its long 12+ years gestation period, side-effects and reoccurrence rates.


Philip

08/13/2010 20:58
coachG 
08/13/2010 20:58
coachG 
Re: Xiaflex today..next day

Hard to type!

Had manipulation today with lydocaine (say yes to pain meds!!) Finger was easily straightened. Large cord that NA wasn't able to break was easily handled with the Xiaflex--the cord is now gone! Pretty amazing.

Hand is very swollen & still numb some 5 hours later. I'm sure there will be a good amount of pain coming my way. But, a straight finger after 2 years is going to be nice. I'm most interested to see how loing it stays straight.

Wearing a splint today & will use it at night to "encourage" the finger to stay straight.

Dr. Hutson was great to work with. Very straightforward & honest. He's got a great personality.

I'll post again in the coming days about my progress.
Eric

08/13/2010 21:47
flojo 
08/13/2010 21:47
flojo 
Re: Xiaflex today

PhillipHa1 -

Quote:
Clearly in all circumstances, as a patient, it is your personal judgement as to which treatment is best for you, but.....I think this judgement needs to be based on facts.

I agree. I was given about 1% chance of getting cancer in the radiated area only, not in any surrounding tissue, after 25 years. Those are odds that I was willing to risk. Also, with the low dosage, RT could be given again if Dups gets active again in the same hand. My whole palm and meta joints were radiated.

08/13/2010 22:21
PhilipHa1 
08/13/2010 22:21
PhilipHa1 
Re: Evidence of Radiation Risk

Flojo,

I would be interested where you got your '1% risk' from?

Based on the paper provided on the website (theoretical risk) and no recorded cases (empirical risk), the 1% I have heard mentioned before on this forum seems an overestimate to me. You might interpret via extrapolation between the Jansen paper for heel spurs and the additional radiation dosage of DD treatment that a 1% risk might be for a pessimistic estimate for patients under 30 years old. For older patients, even if you are being pessimistic, 1% is probably a significant over-estimate.

My concern is that outside this forum, the risk of secondary tumours is used to persuade patients that radiotherapy is too risky. A 1% risk would have made me think twice about RT, but in my case, a lower less than 0.1% estimate, in combination with an explanation that there were no recorded cases and a lifetime risk of ~25% of cancer, made me not think twice about the treatment.

What I am trying to say is that if anyone quotes figures, like 1%, it would be helpful if these figures are backed up by hard evidence, theroetical or empirical. Without this hard evidence we fall into the same catagory as medical professionals who use unquantified perceived risks as a rationale for dismissing radiotherapy.

If you have hard evidence to justify the 1% risk, it would be useful if you could share it with the forum and we could add it to the body of evidence provided in the paper on the website.

I am not a medical professional, so I can only interpret the evidence provided in the paper and information provided to me by a professor of radiotherapy at the time I was looking for alternative treatments to surgery 11 years ago.


Philip

08/13/2010 22:33
Jill 
08/13/2010 22:33
Jill 
Radiation Risk

Hi Philip,

Yes, what you express about the risk of radiation is exactly in line with what our radiation oncologist here in Boise says: if you are over the age of 40, the risk of cancer from this low dose radiation for Dupuytrens is basically nil, unmeasurable.

She says they use this same radiation routinely to reduce scarring from large incisions such as hip surgery.


-Jill @Dupuytrens Center

www.dupuytrenscenter.com

08/14/2010 02:07
flojo 
08/14/2010 02:07
flojo 
Re: Xiaflex today

Unless I have not accurately remembered Dr. T's discussion RT including risk, he said about 1% after 25 years. (Note: "about 1%") I told him that I planned to live until 100 and I was 71 at the time. We laughingly discussed that I would hit the 25 year risk time before I turned 100. To me, 1% is so minimal that I consider it practically nil. I do need to remember, however, that other people might consider that as a high risk. I don't.

I didn't ask, but I assumed that Dr. T based it on research. I had done my own research on this site and I was strongly leaning toward having RT anyway. I did and still figure that there is no other option at this time to stop the progression. I would probably have had RT if the risk factor was even higher because the progression of my DD was not slowing down. I had RT almost 2 years after I first noticed it and was diagnosed.

I did ask Dr. T where cancer might occur - in the skin, in the fascia, in the bone or where. I asked if the risk of cancer anywhere else in the body would increase. He said the increased risk would only occur in the area that the radiation/electron beams reached. My understanding is that the depth of electron radiation is controlled and it doesn't go all the way through the hand. That's why he did a CT scan to determine the depth of Dupuytren's in my fascia and set the radiation based on the info from the CT scan. The metal plate was cut out according to the map of the DD in my hand and only that part of my hand was exposed to the electron beam.

What I have said above about my personal experience is all I know. I'm not in the medical field at all, but I find out all of the relevant information that I can before I make decisions about most things. I found out all I could about RT before I ever went to Dr. T. I waited about 2 months after my first evaluation and consultation with Dr. T because I had personal scheduling conflicts and could not get there before. I already had my RT scheduled to begin on Monday after my personal schedule conflicts were over on the previous Saturday. I was a little concerned that it might not be active by the time my RT was scheduled, but it showed no signs of going dormant.

Everybody has to make his/her own decision based on the best information available. Fortunately for me, I had found out about this site and sought all of the info I could from links and Forum posts. Actually, it was the personal experiences that others had posted as much, if not more than the research, that really helped me with making my decision. Knowing the background from research helped me relate to the personal experiences of others.

08/14/2010 15:49
coachG 
08/14/2010 15:49
coachG 
Re: Xiaflex today--night 1

Had a hard time sleeping with the splint on last night. Didn't take any pain meds, as none were prescribed. Not sure if they normally are prescribed for post-procedure pain. After about 3 hours I took the spling off & slept well the rest of the night. My problem cord ran across the lowest knuckle of the finger (where finger meets the hand) & contracted the middle knuckle (I think the PIP joint??). Lots of joint pain in the affected knuckle & much tenderness at all the swollen areas of the hand, most notably the back of my hand. Ice & ibuprofen have been my treatments thus far.

Next morning...
Hand is much more functional, but still very swollen & some minor pain as I straighten the finger. A pretty good bruise where the cord used to be, maybe due to the Xiaflex injection & trauma of the straightening process. Wearing the splint brings about the most pain, as it pushes the affected knuckle to straighten. Oh, well. As I washed my hair in the shower I was able to run my hand smoothly over my head instead of one finger sticking out & scratching the scalp. Forgot what that was like!

My plan is to wear the splint off & on during the next few days & force myself to wear it all night. I will continue to post as my recovery progresses.

If anybody has any questions, feel free to ask.
Eric

08/14/2010 16:36
dave t

not registered

08/14/2010 16:36
dave t

not registered

Re: Xiaflex today

Hi,

Glad to hear the progress; I took Advil for a night and day after the manipulation. Pain was minimal after two days.

Re: the RT comments I made (concerned about the long term risk) I should have clarified that the estimate of 1% chance of cancer over 25 years (not after 25 years) is , in my judgment, a higher risk than I'd like to take at this stage. But it is surely an individual choice and is affected by disease severity, prior treatment sucess or failure, patient age, etc.

I can also believe that Phillip's assertion of lower risk might be true, too. The problem with RT and with xiaflex is that there is very, very little data on the long term results and side effects of RT and none on the long term effects of xiaflex.

Unfortunately those of us with DC are caught without sufficient information to make choices that leave us 100% comfortable with the long term efects of most treatments. NA seems the most cautious approach, but also-depending upon the data you read-has a pretty high recurrance rate. Multiple NA is always an option and seems very safe. Personally, I am in the process of a series of xiaflex injections (after having NA last yr.) and the early results are very encouraging. But, there is no data about long term effect.

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