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Post surgery advice
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04/25/2015 20:33
Rdevin 
04/25/2015 20:33
Rdevin 
Re: Post surgery advice

Cherise - It sounds like you have a flare very similar to mine. It is hard to find any Dr who has sensible or partly useful suggestions as to how best treat it.

One very kind retired physio suggested a number of things to try and the first was to stop the warm water soaks and go for cold soaks. This requires iced water with lots of ice still floating around and immerse the whole hand for 20 to 30 mins and even add ice as It melts. It takes a while to get used to and is quite painful to start. After this gently warm and rub the hand and joints to loosen them up. With some diclofenac 2 or 3 times a day as well the swelling was controlled and went away in 4 weeks. The ice is done 2 or 3 times a day.

It did not help the stiffness though and that requires some hard physio work. After a while I found that rubbing the whole hand in Bio Oil helped loosen the joints a little and aided in flexing. This has the advantage that it massages both hands equally.

I also noticed other small nodules on the other hand got softer and smaller after many weeks of application and some others on this site have posted it helps and I must concur. I also think rubbing it into the whole hand (30 minutes) helps to slow the flare and now believe if I had done this treatment as soon as the surgery healed I would have avoided the flare and stopped some of most of the stiffening which is still pretty bad but slowly improving.

One of the tertiary problems is that one gets used to the lack of movement and loss of grip and adapts to other ways to do ones work, this leads to some complacency with doing the treatments and after a few days the lack of Bio Oil and physio and ice do show up as a stiffening once more.

RD

04/26/2015 03:20
Cherise 
04/26/2015 03:20
Cherise 

Re: Post surgery advice

Rdevin:
Cherise - It sounds like you have a flare very similar to mine. It is hard to find any Dr who has sensible or partly useful suggestions as to how best treat it.

One very kind retired physio suggested a number of things to try and the first was to stop the warm water soaks and go for cold soaks. This requires iced water with lots of ice still floating around and immerse the whole hand for 20 to 30 mins and even add ice as It melts. It takes a while to get used to and is quite painful to start. After this gently warm and rub the hand and joints to loosen them up. With some diclofenac 2 or 3 times a day as well the swelling was controlled and went away in 4 weeks. The ice is done 2 or 3 times a day.

It did not help the stiffness though and that requires some hard physio work. After a while I found that rubbing the whole hand in Bio Oil helped loosen the joints a little and aided in flexing. This has the advantage that it massages both hands equally.

I also noticed other small nodules on the other hand got softer and smaller after many weeks of application and some others on this site have posted it helps and I must concur. I also think rubbing it into the whole hand (30 minutes) helps to slow the flare and now believe if I had done this treatment as soon as the surgery healed I would have avoided the flare and stopped some of most of the stiffening which is still pretty bad but slowly improving.

One of the tertiary problems is that one gets used to the lack of movement and loss of grip and adapts to other ways to do ones work, this leads to some complacency with doing the treatments and after a few days the lack of Bio Oil and physio and ice do show up as a stiffening once more.

RD

The ice treatment I have not heard of before and will ask my PSIO . It does sound painful and I wonder what amount of shrinkage can be accomplished with this technique.

I use hot wax treatments daily. It helps relax the muscles and tendons. I also have psoriatic arthritis which complicate the issue. Actually DC is also a form of arthritis. The antibodies attacking the tendons sending out collagen to build up causing the whole effect. I also use oil for massage. I am going to ask my doctor about Cannibis oil. I have head good thing about it.

I totally agree with your last paragraph. This disease is so frustrating to constantly fight. But most of my flexibility is good enough to use my hand even though it is painful. It takes time and determination that's for sure.

Sometimes it's better left alone. Many people that have DC even my doctor just leaves it alone. Usually any treatment causes a flare. The first hand surgeon not my current surgeon had suggested it was better to remove the thickened tendons now before the fiinger curled shut. Well the surgery caused a flare and the finger did the opposite of the doctors intention to prevent frozen curl to the finger. All my fingers are now curling. Who woulda known . So he left me on my own by stating well that's all I can do , left me no referrals or additional treatment options. What a MESS! Huh! So here we are looking on the Internet for answers from others. I appreciate your suggestion and I will ask my new dr. Thank you for sharing your treatment .
What a crazy disease!

04/26/2015 09:49
wach 

Administrator

04/26/2015 09:49
wach 

Administrator

Re: Post surgery advice

Did you see the stages and therapies page http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr..._therapies.html. It might help a Little in decision making.

Wolfgang

BRIANB:
just ordered one .... can't hurt ..

one of the difficult issues of this crazy disease is .... when and or how early .. or what stage to get EX. steroid injection .. Xiaflex treatment .. radiation ... N.A. or open surgery ...

Because as most know ... needles and poking around can real stir things up ... and you could end up with a worse problem ..

As the saying goes " timing is everything " ...

04/26/2015 15:44
BRIANB 
04/26/2015 15:44
BRIANB 
Re: Post surgery advice

Thank you ...

Just reviewed the page ... very interesting ... however I noticed steroid injection into nodules was not shown or mentioned.

I have at this point the beginning of nodule formation ... other than RX I feel an injection into the nodule may help....
Years ago prior to and during NA the nodules were injected and the became smaller and just about disappeared.. in time..

Dr. Eaton did the injections six weeks prior to NA ...for badly bent fingers..

Thanks Again ...

04/26/2015 21:20
Rdevin 
04/26/2015 21:20
Rdevin 
Re: Post surgery advice

Hi Cherise - not sure if I explained the ice pack properly. The main reason is to reduce the swelling and to help stop any further buildup of liquids in and around the joints, it is not supposed to help with any other part of the flare and it certainly does reduce the swelling. The physio said hot opens the blood vessels and allows more liquid into the area whist the opposite is true for cold. She also said to massage the swollen parts so as to push fluids out of the hand. Also read quite a few bits about the cold as well, but not cold presses as it should be water to really get the cold in there. The physio was a post op physio for many years.

Whether the flare is specific to DD or it is related to Complex regional pain syndrome or RSD is not known and after research there is no real opinion out there. It seems that various problems occur after surgery and each one is slightly different and there are many threads where people describe their own method of treatment but there is no well documented discussion about what problems occur and how to manage them. One would have thought after all these years there would be a comprehensive 'manual of treatment' but it comes in dribs and drabs.

Another thing about surgery is that if one has a general one never knows who did the surgery, was it the Dr or a trainee!!! For the mess you describe by an experienced surgeon you have to wonder?

RD

04/27/2015 04:01
wach 

Administrator

04/27/2015 04:01
wach 

Administrator

Steroid injection

Steroid injection is of course another option. It might help for some time. Typically the disease comes back about 2-3 years after the injection. Did your injection help for a longer period? It could be more effective in the early stage.

The Treatment overview that I posted lists only the well established treatments with proven success. There are a lot of other attempts to treat Dupuytren's. Some of them are described under "Treatments" in the section "Other treatments", steroid injection e.g. on http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytren_steroids.html.

Wolfgang

BRIANB:
Thank you ...

Just reviewed the page ... very interesting ... however I noticed steroid injection into nodules was not shown or mentioned.

I have at this point the beginning of nodule formation ... other than RX I feel an injection into the nodule may help....
Years ago prior to and during NA the nodules were injected and the became smaller and just about disappeared.. in time..

Dr. Eaton did the injections six weeks prior to NA ...for badly bent fingers..

Thanks Again ...

04/27/2015 05:51
Cherise 
04/27/2015 05:51
Cherise 

Re: Post surgery advice

Rdevin:
Hi Cherise - not sure if I explained the ice pack properly. The main reason is to reduce the swelling and to help stop any further buildup of liquids in and around the joints, it is not supposed to help with any other part of the flare and it certainly does reduce the swelling. The physio said hot opens the blood vessels and allows more liquid into the area whist the opposite is true for cold. She also said to massage the swollen parts so as to push fluids out of the hand. Also read quite a few bits about the cold as well, but not cold presses as it should be water to really get the cold in there. The physio was a post op physio for many years.

Whether the flare is specific to DD or it is related to Complex regional pain syndrome or RSD is not known and after research there is no real opinion out there. It seems that various problems occur after surgery and each one is slightly different and there are many threads where people describe their own method of treatment but there is no well documented discussion about what problems occur and how to manage them. One would have thought after all these years there would be a comprehensive 'manual of treatment' but it comes in dribs and drabs.

Another thing about surgery is that if one has a general one never knows who did the surgery, was it the Dr or a trainee!!! For the mess you describe by an experienced surgeon you have to wonder?

RD


Yes I understood your description. And not sure it would be good for my arthritis. I will ask my Dr. Thank you for your post. I appreciate it very much.

I am also aware of all the different stages of DC. If only the doctors could agree and treat accordingly. Yet I have another doctor who has DC and has chosen to do nothing for years and he was lucky the DC HAS NOT advanced from small nodules. He is not a hand surgeon but a GP.

I have had cortisone shots in the large nodules in my palm which did shrink the inflamed nodules after the painful Xiaflex injections which also caused the lymph glands under my arm to swell painfully,lots of ice there and my elbow more ice there. Xiaflex injections is not a walk in the park. It has many side effects. Yet my finger is now free of the messed up scar tissue from surgery and from a 135' to 80'. All fingers are at different levels .

I have decided not do anything else as in my case every treatment has had the Keobner effect. Flare!
I still like to do many things with my hands. Sometimes it's a good day others I wait for help! Why risk more damage.

Hope you are doing better. You have great advice and well experienced in the many treatments for DC.
THANKX for your advice.

04/27/2015 09:37
BRIANB 
04/27/2015 09:37
BRIANB 
Re: Post surgery advice

Steroid injections into nodules were six years ago ...along with N.A.

Nodules are gone or have become much smaller and softer ..

Dr. Eaton injected the nodules... had me return weeks later for NA and during te procedure he injected the nodules again , I believe.... the reasoning for injecting and waiting six weeks was to shrink and soften the nodules ... thus making NA easier..

This all worked out very well in my case ...everything Dr. Eaton did is still fine ..
My problem is, I have an new nodule starting on a new finger ...

Strange disease ... as you know ..

04/27/2015 15:11
Cherise 
04/27/2015 15:11
Cherise 

Re: Post surgery advice

BRIANB:
Steroid injections into nodules were six years ago ...along with N.A.

Nodules are gone or have become much smaller and softer ..

Dr. Eaton injected the nodules... had me return weeks later for NA and during te procedure he injected the nodules again , I believe.... the reasoning for injecting and waiting six weeks was to shrink and soften the nodules ... thus making NA easier..

This all worked out very well in my case ...everything Dr. Eaton did is still fine ..
My problem is, I have an new nodule starting on a new finger ...

Strange disease ... as you know ..


This is Devastatingly strange disease . I'm not handling it to well . Too much has happened from treatments. I had steroid injections in shoulder, foot & hand. Very painful never in my case, did I get the same results as you posted. The effects from the injections lasted for a few days which helped contol the pain. As far as any shrinking of the nogules no luck .

I am very happy to hear steroid injections helped in your case. Maybe we were in different stages . After that I left the feet nodules alone and they seemed to have resolved themselves with wearing padded shoes with arches. Taking the pressure of where the nodules are located has been a big relief. I don't dare walk barefoot or it starts the pain up and the cycle begins.

Stay well and I hope you continue to find relief with steroid injections.

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