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Aggressive NA--Denkler and others
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06/12/2009 12:34
lori 
06/12/2009 12:34
lori 
Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

Back to the billing of insurance issue. I do not know Dr. Denkler but I work in a field where insurance is used. We do not accept insurance, nor do we bill insurance. We provide forms for clients to send into their insurance for reinbursement. We will help the client to get reinbursed.

It can take up to 6 months or more for insurance to reimburse a patient, and who knows how much the insurance company will or if ultimately pay. Then you have to chase the patient down to hopefully get the balance due.

Accepting insurance or not has nothing to do with being competent. If a practioner can survive without accepting insurance, then why would they?

I imagine Dr. Denkler would rather practice than become a collection agency.

Lori

06/12/2009 16:14
Mike S

not registered

06/12/2009 16:14
Mike S

not registered

Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

Dr. Denkler charged app. $725 two 1/2 years ago for my [successful] one finger 95 degree PIP NA. Staff and doctor were extremely cordial and helpful throughout. They even researched and found physical therapists specializing in the hand in my geographic area. Dr. Denkler's office provided me with a correctly coded and properly completed claim form which I submitted to my carrier (Blue Shield POS) who [fortunately] reimbursed me in full with no complications.

To have the procedure performed, my wife and I flew up from LA to SF and took a taxi over to Larkspur. We returned the same way, leaving the doctor's office some 30 minutes after the NA was completed (had to wait for the taxi). If need be, I could have easily rented a car and driven to the airport myself.

100% BETTER than traditional open hand surgery. NA was done on Friday. I was at work on Monday.

06/12/2009 16:19
flojo 
06/12/2009 16:19
flojo 
Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

Randy H wrote:
"Typically NA is charged by the finger, regardless of the degree of contraction. At no charge, Eaton did some palm work on tissue leading to fingers other than the one he straightened. This kind of consideration and dedication to the patient is common among American NA surgeons. I've personally met three of them and talked to a number of others. A "self selecting" good bunch of guys. No one forces them to do NA."
Well said. I fully agree that these "self-selecting" doctors are in a class by themselves.
The NA done by Dr. Denkler on my hand released cords 4 cords - one affecting my thumb and one affecting my pinkie, and 2 others in the palm not yet causing contraction.

06/13/2009 05:17
diane s

not registered

06/13/2009 05:17
diane s

not registered

Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

I would respectfully suggest that the quality and effectiveness of treatment are more important than the billing procedures of a physician. i knew i would have to pay out of pocket to Denkler and did so. my insurance carrier eventually reimbursed me for the portion covered. His bill was $700 and bc paid about half of it.

a year and a half earlier, i had open surgery on the same finger. the surgeon's fee was $2900, the hospital an astounding 14,000 (with blue cross discount) and the anesthesiologist about 1000. while insurance covered this, with the deductable and the fact they only pay 80 % of covered costs, I still spent well over the $700 Denkler charged. And I also had quite a bit of physical therapy due to the trauma to my hand. And on top of all that, the bend came back which is why i checked out NA. So the NA treatment was vastly less expensive, not to mention the lack of an 8 week recovery. Think carefully before having a traditional surgery if NA is a suitable option.

I can appreciate the reasons some doctors in single or small practices don't want to maintain a staff to do all the insurance billing. it just means they have to charge more. its part of the reason health care costs are so high.

Personally I would have NA many many more times before another open surgery. its just a better technique in many cases.

end of rant. diane

06/13/2009 19:02
ladwil 
06/13/2009 19:02
ladwil 
Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

Just found out that my insurance (HMO plan) won't cover NA because there are other more traditional options and it has a high recurrance rate. They will cover the surgery for over ten thousand, but not an $1150 NA charge ($850 for one finger and a $300 surgery center charge.) I expected the $850 fee but I was disappointed at the extra $300 charge. I thought the NA docs could do this procedure easily in their office exam room. My options are waiting and changing my ins. plan next year to BC or going through with the NA and filing an appeal with the HMO. I don't want to wait since my contracture seems to be worsening. Anyone make a successful appeal for coverage of NA?

06/13/2009 21:08
brian123

not registered

06/13/2009 21:08
brian123

not registered

Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

I WOULD APPEAL THE DECISION....NOT TO COVER NA

06/14/2009 00:57
SteveAbrams

not registered

06/14/2009 00:57
SteveAbrams

not registered

Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

I successfully contested my HMO's refusal to cover NA four and a half years ago. The letter is to bigger than what is allowable on this website. Send me your email address and I will send a copy of it.

Steve Abrams
smabrams at chorus.net

06/14/2009 12:28
ladwil 
06/14/2009 12:28
ladwil 
Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

Thanks Steve - just sent you an email.
L

06/17/2009 17:25
chs

not registered

06/17/2009 17:25
chs

not registered

Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

Just so you guys know, the local BC/BS insurer here reimburses surgeon just under $500 for NA and about $675 for open procedure. All the other costs paid (and for open, that means hospital or day surgery OR costs) do not go to the surgeon. In fact, usually the hospital gets about $5000 and the anesthesiologist gets a little more than the surgeon.
As a surgeon, I would much rather you come to my office and we fix this directly with you or your insurance company paying $500 for the procedure and $125 for the office eval than you or your insurace company spending $5-7000 of which 90% goes God knows where. This is why the health care system is broken.
When I first opened my private practice, I was cash pay - we bill your insurance once but you are responsible for collecting from your insurer. This allowed me to avoid having an office staff hired solely to deal with insurance companies. It was great. Very direct patient care. Unfortunately, it is not a sustainable model anymore and we're doing things the traditional way now, you pay just the co-pay, my fees are much higher, insurance is billed, they pay 6 months later, I pay billing company, pay my interest for floating the insurance company a loan, pay my office staff for dealing with insurers and end up with slightly less than when I was cash pay. But the system pays about twice what it cost when there weren't 600 middlemen and 200 pieces of paper/electronic data exchanged.
Since every insurance company has about 100 different plans with different rules and different payment rates and there are probably 20 insurance companies covering N CA, I imagine Denkler just wants to simplify life. Extra paperwork and headache equal wasted time and money.
Insurance companies unload this burden on the doc, some docs then unload this onto the patient. Docs and patients suffer while insurance companies and hospitals make money. Sorry for the downer slightly-off-topic post, but the system is definitely broken.

06/21/2009 02:32
jimh 
06/21/2009 02:32
jimh 
Re: Aggressive NA--Denkler and others

I just had NA at Mayo and I'm probably going to pay a lot of money out-of-pocket. I got a partial but very significant release of an extensive and problematic contracture that was severely restricting my left thumb. I knew going in that my insurance company would pay, at best, only part of this out-of-network bill and may try to deny the whole thing.

I think we've all internalized the idea that every medical problem should be covered by insurance, while our own money is for cars and vacations. I've been through 2 conventional surgeries, with long and tedious recovery, and I'm only too happy to spend my own money to get my hand's functionality greatly improved in one afternoon. Spending my money to repair my body makes sense, and doesn't represent some sort of defeat.





Edited 06/21/09 05:33

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