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Advice on Xiaflex
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10/16/2012 03:32
brianprice 
10/16/2012 03:32
brianprice 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

Callie - I can only speak to my motivation for having it done. I thought that given my previous experience with nerve damage after surgery that Xiaflex seemed less risky for further nerve damage - just the idea of someone poking around in there multiple times with a needle to break things up was problematic for me. Maybe not true - don't know if the data would support that decision. The other reason was that I thought that this doc's procedure had a better chance of damaging the cord in multiple places more permanently so that reoccurrence would be less likely. This assume that that existing cords reconnect or something - but maybe that isn't how it works. Maybe it's just new growths so it doesn't really matter. And it my vary from person to person - I suspect it does.

For some people there isn't much pain with Xiaflex - those I think are folks who were only injected in 1 or 2 sites in a treatment - but that's only from reading the posts and trying to glean some patterns.

I guess i would say that both treatments seem to have few long term side effects - compared to some surgeries. Short term is another matter. Two of my surgeries were on nodules with no cords or contracture of the finger - and I have had no reoccurences there 30 years and 15 years later. The last surgery was on a contracted pinkie with cords - and there I got an immediate reoccurrence. But I'm also much older - maybe that's a factor.

If this comes back i would consider NA - I wouldn't have much to lose - and not sure I could face another Xiaflex. They would have to put me under....

callie:
Can't help but make the inquiry. What is the advantage of Xiaflex over NA? It seems considerably more painful with greater side effects. The only thing that I see is revenue for Pfizer.

10/16/2012 05:56
wach 

Administrator

10/16/2012 05:56
wach 

Administrator

Re: Advice on Xiaflex

Brian,

I am a little surprised that you had two surgeries without contracture and even without a cord. That's quite unusual. Years ago I myself was refused surgery because my contracture wasn't big enough. I then had it a couple of years later. Usually sugreons only operate if you have at least 20-30 deg of contracture.

Being older is actually better with respect to recurrence. The older you are the later you experience recurrence. I guess everything slows down when you get older, even Dupuytren's ... You probably had surgery for a contracted PIP (= middle) joint of your pinkie. That's the worst joint of the hand for Dupuytren's surgery and the disease on the PIP joint of the pinkie usually comes back relatively fast, after surgery but also after NA or Xiaflex.

Wolfgang

brianprice:
... Two of my surgeries were on nodules with no cords or contracture of the finger - and I have had no reoccurences there 30 years and 15 years later. The last surgery was on a contracted pinkie with cords - and there I got an immediate reoccurrence. But I'm also much older - maybe that's a factor.

10/16/2012 06:00
wach 

Administrator

10/16/2012 06:00
wach 

Administrator

Re: Advice on Xiaflex

Very unusual and, as you write, certainly off-label. There is nothing to back this up. Neither studies nor theory support the idea that Xiaflex works on nodules. If that would be the case Xiaflex would be an ideal treatment for Ledderhose and Auxilium & Pfizer certainly won't miss that market.

Wolfgang

brianprice:
I see- interesting. My doc is recommending Xiaflex treatment on my un-contracted index finger for a nodule without a cord. More of a preventive treatment. Wonder if that's really going to be effective. It's certainly off-lablel.

10/16/2012 06:13
brianprice 
10/16/2012 06:13
brianprice 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

My first surgeon did not know it was Dupuytrens until he operated. The nodule was growing so fast he thought it might be cancer - but his procedure did work with no reoccurrence in that spot. However another nodule started developing in the palm next to it, which eventually another doc operated on successfully.

It is the pinkie that has been most problematic. The first surgeon I went to said I should wait as long as I could before surgery since the reoccurrence rate is very high there. We will see if the same is true with Xiaflex for me.

wach:
Brian,

I am a little surprised that you had two surgeries without contracture and even without a cord. That's quite unusual. Years ago I myself was refused surgery because my contracture wasn't big enough. I then had it a couple of years later. Usually sugreons only operate if you have at least 20-30 deg of contracture.

Being older is actually better with respect to recurrence. The older you are the later you experience recurrence. I guess everything slows down when you get older, even Dupuytren's ... You probably had surgery for a contracted PIP (= middle) joint of your pinkie. That's the worst joint of the hand for Dupuytren's surgery and the disease on the PIP joint of the pinkie usually comes back relatively fast, after surgery but also after NA or Xiaflex.

Wolfgang
brianprice:
... Two of my surgeries were on nodules with no cords or contracture of the finger - and I have had no reoccurences there 30 years and 15 years later. The last surgery was on a contracted pinkie with cords - and there I got an immediate reoccurrence. But I'm also much older - maybe that's a factor.


10/16/2012 13:31
callie 
10/16/2012 13:31
callie 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

Brian,

I am also surprised with the history of your procedures. From everything that I have read and experienced, I can't imagine any surgeon (or anyone) saying, "The first surgeon I went to said I should wait as long as I could before surgery since the recurrence rate is very high there". I have never heard advice from any surgeon suggesting waiting beyond 50 degrees contraction. My surgeon stressed that 30-50 degrees is the optimum time for surgery. That was because often contracture stops at that level of contraction and many people decide they can live with that level of contraction rather than having a procedure.

I am very surprised you had surgery for nodules. That news is a first for me.

10/16/2012 13:37
BRIANB 
10/16/2012 13:37
BRIANB 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

fyi i HAD NODULES IN FINGERS AND PALMS.......CORIZONE INJECTIONS SOFTENED AND DISOLVED THEM OVER TIME..

{ NA for contractures }

10/16/2012 15:05
brianprice 
10/16/2012 15:05
brianprice 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

I am a violinist - so the doc knew I couldn't wait until a major contracture before doing surgery. But he did say wait as long as I could because it would probably come back - and the surgery could damage my finger in a way to make playing difficult.

callie:
Brian,

I am also surprised with the history of your procedures. From everything that I have read and experienced, I can't imagine any surgeon (or anyone) saying, "The first surgeon I went to said I should wait as long as I could before surgery since the recurrence rate is very high there". I have never heard advice from any surgeon suggesting waiting beyond 50 degrees contraction. My surgeon stressed that 30-50 degrees is the optimum time for surgery. That was because often contracture stops at that level of contraction and many people decide they can live with that level of contraction rather than having a procedure.

I am very surprised you had surgery for nodules. That news is a first for me.

10/16/2012 23:21
Maddie 
10/16/2012 23:21
Maddie 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

LubaM.:
I have a badly contracted PIP joint in small finger of right hand, tried NA twice on it, with two different doctors (Dr. Eaton and Dr. Denkler), both great and top in the field...Both times the contracture returned within six months to the same degree as before NA. Now the PIP joint, small finger left hand is starting to contract.

I feel lucky that I only have a few nodules and dimples in the rest of both hands, and being a fine artist the bent pinkies being the only problems, so far, don't interfere with my holding the paint brushes. I will patiently wait to see long term results for Xiaflex to decide if I want to subject myself to the unpleasant side effects and possible painful procedure. I am just hoping that two bent pinkies will be all I have for a while.


Luba,

Have you tried custom splints for your little finger PIP contractures? I know everyone is different, so this may not work for you, but I have had great results with using splinting for a little finger PIP contracture, and so far have not needed to try either NA or Xiaflex. (Knock on wood...) If you're interested, see my post of just a few minutes ago in the thread on splinting before contracture.

Best wishes,

Maddie

10/17/2012 00:42
hammer 
10/17/2012 00:42
hammer 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

Na doesnt work on thick cords,I had Dr Bourland poke me hundreds of times trying to cut the cord but it wouldnt release.After a good hour or so he give up.That hurt big time.Xiaflex popped that same cord like nothin.Just sayn.Dave

10/17/2012 03:26
LubaM. 
10/17/2012 03:26
LubaM. 
Re: Advice on Xiaflex

Have you tried custom splints for your little finger PIP contractures? I know everyone is different, so this may not work for you, but I have had great results with using splinting for a little finger PIP contracture, and so far have not needed to try either NA or Xiaflex. (Knock on wood...) If you're interested, see my post of just a few minutes ago in the thread on splinting before contracture.
Best wishes,
Maddie


Maddie,
With both NA's I had hand therapy and custom splints made. The problem (both times) was that the splints were made of moldable material and within a couple of months the contracture came back and the splint didn't fit because the PIP joint would hit against the splint and it was too painful to wear... it took only a couple of months to start bending, but within six months the PIP contracture was back to its original position.

Happy that splinting has worked for you, this weird disease is so different for all of us !

Thanks for your suggestion
Luba M.

Edited 10/17/12 06:27

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