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A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...
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03/19/2016 10:46
meunier 
03/19/2016 10:46
meunier 
A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

I am the proverbial 60 year old, Caucasian male living in London of Northern European extract. I have no active knowledge of Dupuytren's history in my family ... but as I have the early stages of it ... I suppose it must be there.

I was entirely unaware of the disease (DD) until just over a month ago. I stumbled across a lump just above the first cross line of my palm immediately below from my ring finger.

As was my concern - when it comes to health matters - I was concerned so I looked it up on the internet. I came up with DD.

I saw my local NHS surgery (which has been going downhill for some time) GP who said it was 'tigger finger' and that it was possible to steroid injections if it progressed. I queried him further and he said if it progressed beyond that 'it would be something else'. I pressed him again and he did mention DD. I left feeling dissatisfied with his response.

I saw a specialist listed on the British Dupuytren's Society website and he said I did have the 'early on-set' of DD. He felt my hands. Quite obviously I have one nodule on my left hand. I am uncertain whether I have a cord. There is no contracture. He also said I had indications of it on my right hand but there are certainly no nodules. (I have just the one.) He said I could have the R/T which could be delivered in one five day go or on alternate days over two weeks suggesting that it was the amount of radition that was given within the time frames that was key. I was told that this was by virtue of the radiation guidelines. He said that he had had great success in treating early DD patients and that 'I would never need to see a hand surgeon'. I had no indication of LD.

I wrote to the Professor in Hamburg but he would not be able to see me until the middle of April.

I can't find any personal documentation/stories on the internet of patients from the British doctor (again listed on the British Society's webpage as well as on the International Society's one). What do people do? Have any people had experiences with RT around London, UK for Dupuytren's? If so I would love to hear from you.

I don't mind saying I am genuinely frightened ... verging on petrified. Your guidance will be most keenly appreciated.

(P.S: Given than both Reagan and Thatcher had DD ... Has there ever been any shown link between DD and Alzheimer's Disease ... given that both had that as well? Just asking.)

03/19/2016 11:43
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

03/19/2016 11:43
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

Hi meunier

Welcome to the forum. I'm too in the UK and have had RT, done by the Prof in Hamburg. Presumably you are referring to Dr Glees or Shaffer? Both have good experience of using RT to treat DD, and in Dr Shaffers case there is an outstanding result treating LD as described on Gary's blog http://ledderhose.blogspot.co.uk. I think both can be recommended.

The only thing I would say is that, especially at your age, "wait and see" is a reasonable approach, when as you say you are currently a bit scared and likely to make a hasty decision. For the majority the disease progresses slowly and doesn't lead to a contracture. Perhaps keep a photo log, include other symptoms such as tingling, aches, cramps, etc, and if there are signs of increasing and progressive activity, make the appointment for RT, otherwise just carry on apart from keeping your weekly or monthly log. If you do want to be proactive and get it sorted, just be clear that RT is only effective during a phase of active and progressive symptoms, so more power to having that record that shows objectively just how active it is, or not. RT is not a prophylactic, is essentially a one chance treatment so the time of treatment needs to be well chosen.

I always recommend taking extra care to protect your hands from trauma, when gardening, doing DIY, some sports etc, otherwise just carry on.

Best wishes
SB

Edited 03/19/16 13:49

03/19/2016 11:51
Stefan_K. 
03/19/2016 11:51
Stefan_K. 

Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

Hi meunier. In addition to SB's excellent advice which I agree with I'd like to react to a couple of things you wrote:

meunier:
[...] He also said I had indications of it on my right hand but there are certainly no nodules. (I have just the one.)

If there are no nodules and no cords in that hand, I wonder what kind of "indications" you can have. Chances are though, that eventually nodules and cords develop also in this other hand.

meunier:
[...] He said that he had had great success in treating early DD patients and that 'I would never need to see a hand surgeon'. I had no indication of LD.

That may depend on how long you live and is quite likely. If you ever have to see a hand surgeon, it may be for rather uncomplicated procedures like NA/PNF or collagenase rather than surgery, in case the radiation therapy cannot stop all evolution.

meunier:
[...] I don't mind saying I am genuinely frightened ... verging on petrified. Your guidance will be most keenly appreciated.

(P.S: Given than both Reagan and Thatcher had DD ... Has there ever been any shown link between DD and Alzheimer's Disease ... given that both had that as well? Just asking.)

Don't be. While it is no fun to see nodules or cords develop, with the proper treatment the impact on your life can be very limited and it is not something you will die from or have ongoing pain. There are other things to be worried about first. I also wouldn't worry about a direct link to Alzheimer's. The only link I can see between the two is age!

If all you have for the moment is one relatively small nodule in one hand an no cords, as confirmed by a competent doctor, rather than travel to Hamburg I'd send a photo of it with a measurement of the nodule and a description of its evolution. In my case Prof. S. prefers to wait with treatment of my second hand although I already have a small cord, because he treats a large surface of the hand, not just an individual nodule, and tries to avoid treating not only too late, but also too early.

03/19/2016 16:03
meunier 
03/19/2016 16:03
meunier 
Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

Dear Stefan and Spanishbudda,

Thanks so for your kind responses and advice. They are hugely appreciated.

It was indeed Dr. Glees who I saw.

It did seem to me to be a rather rapid development in that one day there was the lump .. a nodule - albeit small - and then I noticed a slight indentation some weeks later. Of course, the indentation may have been there before. Forgive my ignorance, but - by a cord - do you you mean a series of nodules? ... or something that is hard and strong that reaches up above the tendon to a particular finger? I'm not quite sure. A nodule shows itself above the skin does it not? A nodule is a noticeable lump of dimension however small right? I see what I sometimes think are circles in my skin now and wonder if they are incipient nodules. I have read about DD ... but I keep sounding like a complete dolt when I come to speak about it.

Can I ask: Dr. Glees said that it was the amount of radiation given that was key in terms of treating (i.e., stopping the progression of) the benign DD. Thus he said you could have it five days in a row or on alternate days for two weeks. He said both were equally effective. I spoke to the chief radiotherapy associate, DJ - who seems quite clued in - and he said that at least 30 percent of Dr. Glees' patients had treatments on alternate days for two weeks and they were equally effective. Everything I have read suggests the five day regime is mandatory ... and does not mention the latter as a possibility. Does anyone here have experience with the alternate day treatment and a successful retardation of their DD state/progress? Is anything written about this? I would be oh, so very grateful to know.

Bless you for your kind understanding in my regard. It is, I promise, HUGELY APPRECIATED.

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03/19/2016 16:18
meunier 
03/19/2016 16:18
meunier 
Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

Oh, in addition to the item above, DJ/Dr. Glees did say the RT treatment HAD to be done within a two week span. (Didn't want people to think it could dribble on forever.)

Again, bless you.

03/19/2016 16:53
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

03/19/2016 16:53
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

A cord is a hard rope like object beneath the skin that usually follows the path of tendons. It is a cord that causes a contracture. A nodule is a lump, also beneath the skin, but needs an expert to differentiate it from many other causes of lumps in the hand. Some pictures here http://dupuytrens-contracture.com/dupuyt...cture-pictures/

Your hand looks pretty good to me. Really good actually, wish mine was like that, hah! I would say from that there's no urgency, but that's based on a picture, I'm not a doctor, and have not examined you in person. But have seen a few hands with DD.

The standard reference for RT, developed by the Professor in Hamburg, and published in the literature is 5 consecutive days of 3Gy followed 12 to 16 weeks later by another 5 consecutive days of 3Gy. There are variations on this, and it seems like Dr Glees has developed his own. I cannot possibly say if it is better or worse, but would ask if or where he has published results of his protocol. You could always ask to be treated using the protocol I described.

However, I do think perhaps take a deep breath, start that photo log and keep a record of signs and symptoms. In other words wait and see. As Stefan said, the Professor in Germany often turns away patients who present TOO early! He did that with me on one hand.

Edit to add, the protocol I described, that totals 30Gy is 'one treatment'.

Edited 03/19/16 18:58

03/19/2016 20:48
meunier 
03/19/2016 20:48
meunier 
Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

Oh, Spanishbudda, I cannot thank you enough for this. Honestly I can't. I feel so alone with this - even though I know there are in excess of two million people in this country with this infliction including your good self. I'm a 60 year old man and I sit here desolate in confusion.

I have been to two performances today - and I might have well - have attended none. All I remember now is pictures; fragments not wholes. My mind just would not focus ... It would continually wander ... and you don't have to ask on what it dwelt.

Oh, perhaps I should ask, is applauding bad for me now, i.e., would that now rank as unsuitable trauma? What I wonder is this world of mine coming to if it is.

Another question if I might ... When you were having the RT, did the progression stop after the first string of treatments, i.e., between the first and second RT treatment did it get any worse or did it stop in its progression even then? Much thanks for your kind advice.

Did you have any lasting effects from the side-effects of the RT?

Bless you for this.

Bless you for ALL.

03/20/2016 06:45
wach 

Administrator

03/20/2016 06:45
wach 

Administrator

Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

Hi meunier,

getting irradiation on 5 consecutive days is not mandatory, it's just the usual way. I guess that the 5 days orignated because the week has 5 work days and it has nothing to do with Dupuytren's. The total dose is important but the 30 Gy are not a must either. Some clinics treat with less but one study comparing 21 Gy with 30 showed that the 21 Gy group did not quite as well as the 30 Gy group. But group sizes were small and the difference wasn't huge. Fractioning, i.e. how the dose is split over days and the pauses in between does have an effect, too, but that is not as well researched. The 5 days, 2 months break, then another 5 days is the usual way of treating but not mandatory.

I myself had several radiotherapy treatments in different parts of my hands, 8 alltogether (not overlapping, that means the 30 Gy were nowhere exceeded). Results were good in 7 cases, in 1 case the nodule continued to grow. The skin in the irradiated areas became drier but not dramatically and I can't even tell whether this is still the case. I had no other side effects so far (my first RT was more than 30 years ago).

Wolfgang

03/20/2016 07:16
meunier 
03/20/2016 07:16
meunier 
Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

Dear Wolfgang,

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS.

The doctor in the UK said that you could have a 15gy split over two weeks and it didn't make any difference. The technician said that 30 per cent of his clients had this set-up. For example, you could have one 15gy treatment split over two weeks; i.e., beginning on a Thursday and a Friday ... and then complete it on a Monday through Wednesday. Would this not incur a negative result by what you call fractioning? Or perhaps I misunderstand. Is it that the same strength of Gy was applied over those days over the two week term that is key here?

One other question - on the one occasion where the initial RT treatment did not halt the nodule were you able to have an additional round? If so did that work? In terms of risk that does that additional round merely increase your risk from say the proverbial one to two percent in terms of exposure for further risk? Perhaps that is why they call this exposure 'superficial'.

I'm sorry to be pedantic ... honestly I am ... but I'm just trying to make sense of everything ... and I am, I fear, a naturally fearful creature - although I will do my utmost to hide it.

I AM SO DEEPLY GRATEFUL FOR THE GENEROSITY OF YOUR SHARING .. given your vast experience over so long a time.

Bless you for ALL.

Edited 03/20/16 09:22

03/20/2016 07:40
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

03/20/2016 07:40
spanishbuddha 

Administrator

Re: A New Boy on the DD Block .... with yet more questions ...

To answer the question about RT you asked me. I had the regime of 15Gy in one week followed by 15Gy several weeks later, and it made no apparent difference at all! My hand continued to be sore, and signs of new nodules, and then ... slowly and imperceptibly it started to quiesce and eventually after 18 months I had to admit the RT had worked.

Other people have reported it helped almost straight away.

It is possible to have another one half treatment of 15Gy within the previously radiated field in exceptional and specific circumstances, but only the radiologist can advise on this. This is why you need to choose the moment of treatment well.

One of my hands now still has nodules, but is soft, no aches or soreness, so the DD appears to be dormant. My other hand also soft, has unfortunately had a recurrence of new nodules, this following an injury caused by handling tools. I am monitoring it before deciding what to do. I do have a small side effect, ongoing skin dryness with split fingers in winter. Easily managed with moisturising creams. I have a better collection of hand creams now than many women!

Personally I now avoid clapping or clap gently or on my thigh. Attended a concert last week, clapped by stomping my feet I have to say, at our age, it's really no big deal, just another easily managed health item to cope with, along with all the other aches and pains and things that stop working or decline. Glass half full attitude helps.

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