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NA, RT and Xiaflex
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06/06/2011 02:03
moondanc 
06/06/2011 02:03
moondanc 
NA, RT and Xiaflex

I've begun to think differently about these treatments than I have in the past--I've had seven of them. I've had 1) NA- ring finger RH MCP joint and palm which lasted a couple years, 2) then Xiaflex on that same finger, same joint which lasted a little over a year, 3) then NA again same finger, same joint and palm which didn't work 4)5) 4 months later NA on RH MCP ring finger and palm and LH index and middle finger 6) immediately following the NA I had RT on most of my RH excluding thumb and DIP joints and 7) RT on LH excluding thumb and DIP joints. The last RT procedure was about 19 months ago. it seemed to really help my palms, stopped the itching, softened the hand, stopped cramps, etc.

In the last 3-4 months my DD has started getting extremely aggressive once more. But instead of thinking about it as none of the techniques working, I started looking at it in a different way. I now have DD on 6 of my 8 fingers. But the original RH ring finger MCP joint( where I had several NAs and Xiaflex) and cord from the palm to that finger has not reconnected. However, my pinkie finger next to that finger is horribly affected. It's almost like there's a dead zone in my palm that leads to the MCP joint and there's no DD so it's moved over to my pinkie finger which has been contracting about 5-10 degrees per month for the last couple months affecting both MCP and PIP joints. I also have cords up the sides of the NA and Xiaflex treated finger which is affecting my MCP joint. My left hand is a disaster also with cords up the sides of 3 fingers on that hand and corresponding MCP and much worse PIP contraction and several large lumps. I'm left to wonder if the RT did indeed help prevent cords from forming on the front of my fingers. Most folks don't write much about cords up the sides of their fingers and so I'm curious if they occur in others.

I'm going to have to visit Dr. Eaton again very soon and I'm super concerned about the new aggressiveness of my disease. On of the strange things-- which I KNOW cannot be connected-- is that after a course of oral steriods a few months ago my disease started getting even more aggressive. I know this can't be connected--can it?- since I've had several steriod/Kenalog injections after NA and it is commonly used as DD treatment.

I think I'm beyond the point of thinking about more RT even if I could get Medicare to pay for it. Any comments on what I've written above?

Moondanc

06/06/2011 03:30
flojo 
06/06/2011 03:30
flojo 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

I have a nodule forming below the Meta joint of my forefinger on my left hand and one forming above the same joint. They aren't aggressive at this point. That's what I had checked at Loma Linda UMC and the radiologist wants it to be clearly active before RT. My left hand has several visible cords, but only the one that goes across the web to those nodules in my forefinger progressing and that is only tightening, not really contracting.

Dupuys is creeping around in my right palm though. Most significant contracture is deep in my palm below my pinky and my pinky has started to contract on the inside and curves toward my ring finger most, but a little bit toward the palm. I can feel a cord going from my palm up the inside of my pinky. So, my pinky is being attacked in two directions. I know the pinky is typically most vulnerable. That's why I'm going back to see Dr. Denkler. From the consultation I had with him in March, he tentatively thinks Xiaflex will be best on the cord on the inside of my pinky. NA was such a breeze before that I'm going to do that for most of the cords. The 2nd RT seemed to take care of the nodule in the web near my thumb; it's gone and the thumb is less tight. 2nd RT on the nodule on the inside of my pinky wasn't as effective. I think it might have slowed it down some, but it's didn't stop the progression there.

Is there anything weirder than this disease???

06/06/2011 03:44
moondanc 
06/06/2011 03:44
moondanc 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

flojo:
Is there anything weirder than this disease???

Easy answer - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! And my SO now has it also --his mother also had it-- only good news is we met late in life and didn't have kids together who'd have a double dose!

I'm sorry to hear about your progression Flo--when last I heard you were doing well--except for Medicare of course!

Diane/moondanc

06/06/2011 04:06
flojo 
06/06/2011 04:06
flojo 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

I wouldn't call it aggressive, but I want to nip it in the bud. Dr. Denkler didn't see any urgency when I saw him in March. With that little finger being most involved, I don't want to do the wait and see. I'll be up in NorCal anyway in July, so it is convenient to do it then.

06/07/2011 16:25
LubaM. 
06/07/2011 16:25
LubaM. 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

Diane and Flo,

I'm sorry that you are both facing additional progression of this "WEIRD disease". I guess I feel lucky, so far, in comparison... as my left hand is "holding" after the RT I had in Nov. 2009...my right hand pinkie is another story. Its back to its original contracture in spite of two NA's. But I guess my luck is that since the pinkie has a "boutonierre" contracture, (where the tip is bending upwards) , and the PIP is bent in the other direction, its preventing the finger to bend further into the palm. If it doesn't progress, I will leave it alone for now.

I too, am undecided about Xiaflex, from reading so many negative posts about the reactions and side effects. Also, the only cords I have are from the thumb tothe index finger, on both hands...the rest of the palms have just nodules, unless there are cords deep inside that I cannot see or feel. Since its not affecting the use of my thumbs, I am leaving it along for now.

It doesn't get any weirder.....

06/07/2011 16:51
callie 
06/07/2011 16:51
callie 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

Does Dr. Denkler do any surgery? And, has he suggested that option? In my situation I had a fasciectomy and all of the Dupuytren's affected tissue was removed and some of the neighboring tissue. I have had zero negative effects from this and after almost 10 years now the finger remains as good as before the Dupuytren's. I think that the removal of all of the affected Dupuytren's tissue was significant.

06/07/2011 17:26
moondanc 
06/07/2011 17:26
moondanc 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

callie:
Does Dr. Denkler do any surgery? And, has he suggested that option? In my situation I had a fasciectomy and all of the Dupuytren's affected tissue was removed and some of the neighboring tissue. I have had zero negative effects from this and after almost 10 years now the finger remains as good as before the Dupuytren's. I think that the removal of all of the affected Dupuytren's tissue was significant.

I don't believe you're addressing me but I'm going to give my opinion. Some folks have very mild cases of DD affecting only one finger. I have a friend who has had DD disease for 20 years and it only affects the PIP joint of her little finger-- no palm involvement, and hardly even any contracture. I know of several other folks in this same state. For those of us that have extensive DD in both palms and 2-8 fingers, surgery is a last resort and can't even be attempted on the entire hand and all of the fingers, let alone both hands-- I've been told this by several surgeons. So--comparing one finger to those of us who have extensive disease is probably not a very valid comparison.

Moondanc

06/07/2011 17:36
wach 

Administrator

06/07/2011 17:36
wach 

Administrator

Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

Yes, Keith Denkler is a hand surgeon. He is also very familiar wth NA and Xiaflex. He is certainly an expert for Dupuytren's and can advise what option is the best.

Wolfgang

callie:
Does Dr. Denkler do any surgery? And, has he suggested that option? In my situation I had a fasciectomy and all of the Dupuytren's affected tissue was removed and some of the neighboring tissue. I have had zero negative effects from this and after almost 10 years now the finger remains as good as before the Dupuytren's. I think that the removal of all of the affected Dupuytren's tissue was significant.

06/07/2011 19:13
callie 
06/07/2011 19:13
callie 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

I guess my question would be is Dr. Denkler still doing surgery (fasciectomies) for Dupuytren's, or is he doing NA and Xiaflex exclusively? It seems that the mention of Dr. Denkler on this forum is only about NA and Xiaflex. If he is doing everything, I would be interested in what his criteria is for determining each method. Does he leave it up to the patient to decide, or does he greatly influence the decision.

06/07/2011 20:00
flojo 
06/07/2011 20:00
flojo 
Re: NA, RT and Xiaflex

In my consultations with Dr. Denkler and when I had NA with him, he prefers the less invasive treatment options - NA and now possibly Xiaflex. He used to do surgery until he found out about NA. Then he did NA whenever it was possible. He told me in March that, percentage wise, he now still does more NA, followed by Xiaflex and least is surgery. He will do NA on hands that are severely contracted rather than surgery . He keeps himself educated and up to date with all things Dupuytren's. He's done over 100 Xiaflex treatments, way more NA and has the experience to do surgery if that's the only option.

He is a hand surgeon and affiliated with University of California, San Francisco. He contacted a radiologist at UCSF who was willing to do RT when I was looking for someone to do RT. Since San Diego is closer for me, I decided to go with Scripps.

Dr. Denkler is so helpful and knowledgeable. People can email pictures of their hands and he responds usually within one day and says whether he thinks NA would be effective - no charge, no commitment. That's what I did when I didn't know what to do about my progressing DD. He and the whole office staff are just nice people.

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