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Personal experience
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07/05/2013 06:01
Brian_PDX 
07/05/2013 06:01
Brian_PDX 
Re: Personal experience

Diane,

I absolutely agree we need research to ascertain the origin and "triggers" of DD. But how do we make that happen? My disease accelerated without any treatment, yours and others after Xiaflex or surgery while others have been helped by these treatments. We have no one investigating, that I know of, what is going on except the Auxilium/Xiaflex clinical trials.

Perhaps a research proposal or request to NIH or the Mayo Clinic or Auxilium or a university would get this started.

One note I did not remember to pass on regarding my doctor's appointment. When fingers are contracted, especially to the level mine are, it is difficult to keep them clean and dry. My surgeon recommended getting foot powder and after washing and drying as thoroughly as you can sprinkle some of the foot powder on your finger(s) and hand(s).

The foot powder is an anti-fungal to cure or prevent Athletes Foot. Using it on your DD afflicted hands it reduces the chance of fungal infections at injection, NA needle or incision sites. In using this idea for three days my skin quality on the two contracted fingers has improved significantly. The MD also recommended placing a dry rolled up washcloth under the fingers when you can. I cannot get a washcloth under the fingers but cut up a tee shirt into very small pieces and it serves the same purpose.

Obviously check with your own doctors and make your own decisions.

Take care all, Brian_PDX

    07/05/2013 16:40
    moondanc 
    07/05/2013 16:40
    moondanc 
    Re: Personal experience

    Brian_PDX:
    Diane,

    I absolutely agree we need research to ascertain the origin and "triggers" of DD. But how do we make that happen? My disease accelerated without any treatment, yours and others after Xiaflex or surgery while others have been helped by these treatments. We have no one investigating, that I know of, what is going on except the Auxilium/Xiaflex clinical trials.

    Perhaps a research proposal or request to NIH or the Mayo Clinic or Auxilium or a university would get this started.

    [snip]
    Take care all, Brian_PDX

    Brian,
    What we seem to know is that in those pre-disposed "any" intervention will accelerate the disease--OHS, NA, Xiaflex. You say "others have been helped by these treatments." There are studies that show the recurrence rate after NA. There are studies that show the recurrencet rate after Xiaflex-- yes it helps folks but PIP contractures are very difficult and I think the success rate is only 51% with lots of reccurrence with both joints with Xiaflex. I didn't say that Xiaflex didn't "break" the cord-- much in the same way as NA-- what I said was it seemed to make my disease-- all of a sudden-- much more aggessive. Where I'd had it progress very slowly from just one finger 20 years ago and stay at just one finger, after Xiaflex, it jumped to all finger on first hand AND the other hand.

    We know there is recurrence with NA but it is NOT systemic and as far as I know cannot trigger the disease in the other hand. We don't know this about Xiaflex and the antibodies stay in the system for at least four years, I believe. The end of the 5 year followup study trial was earlier this year-- I don't believe this study has been published.

    I don't think the latest study is on this website, I'll try to look it up -- NOTE to Wach-- if it is here can you point it out?

    We do have folks investigating. There are ongoing studies AND the whole reason Dr. Eaton set up the Dupuytren Foundation is to DO studies. He is actively seeking grants -- including NIH where funding is very scarce-- and other research funds. I believe Auxilium declined to participate in the first Dupuytren conference set up by Dr. Eaton and in fact scheduled their own in close proximity. What would be the incentive for Auxillium to do fund research other than Xiaflex-- they're selling product! They do, however, pay "consultant" fees to many of the doctors, (a few have stock options) that were involved in the FDA Stage 3 trials and other doctors using Xiaflex.

    http://dupuytrens.org/
    http://dupuytrens.org/research.html check out the links to research, grants, etc.

    Edited 07/05/13 19:49

      07/05/2013 16:44
      moondanc 
      07/05/2013 16:44
      moondanc 
      Re: Personal experience

      21 pages of research here:
      http://tinyurl.com/kzu7xgl

        07/05/2013 17:01
        moondanc 
        07/05/2013 17:01
        moondanc 
        Re: Personal experience

        Here's a summary from J Hand Surg Am. 2013 Jan;38(1):2-11. doi: 10.1016/j.jhsa.2012.10.008. Epub 2012 Dec 4.

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23218556

        This is The JOINT I (United States) and JOINT II (Australia and Europe)

        short excerpt:
        Dupuytren cords affecting 879 joints (531 MCP and 348 PIP) in 587 patients were administered CCH injections at 14 U.S. and 20 Australian/European sites, with similar outcomes in both studies. Clinical success was achieved in 497 (57%) of treated joints using 1.2 ± 0.5 (mean ± SD) CCH injections per cord. More MCP than PIP joints achieved clinical success (70% and 37%, respectively) or clinical improvement (89% and 58%, respectively)"

        Note: only 37% success for PIP joints

        I'm pretty sure this is from the original study "only" where they only followed up to 9 month. The study I referred to in an earlier post was a 5-year followup study for patients in this trial (the original 9 months plus a followup every year). Results of that study and/or results of the 2-3 and 4 year measurements would be very welcome information.

        Diane

          07/05/2013 17:17
          Brian_PDX 
          07/05/2013 17:17
          Brian_PDX 
          Re: Personal experience

          Diane,

          In my experience, citizens (activists) who go to their congressional reps can help get agencies like NIH funding for particular purposes. Perhaps we could do that by raising awareness of PP in general and in Congress. We all on this thread know the personal and financial costs of DD. That would be the incentive for government and private sources to provide more funding.

          Auxilium could do research regarding the opinion that Xiaflex treatment accelerates the disease and then we could compare this data to patients who are helped and why. Sure they want to sell the drug, but this effort could improve the drug or at least help target the patients with the highest chance of success.

          It is true that any treatment, including surgery, is less effective on the PIP joint and also more effective on the ring finger than the little finger. We should determine why. I was told by a surgeon the smaller size of the nerves in the little finger make it more difficult to treat.

          It would seem prudent to determine scientifically whether any "mechanical" intervention including NA and surgery causes acceleration of the disease as well as any "chemical" intervention, Xiaflex, DMSO, etc. and if so is it just in the treated hand or both hands (systemic). It seems to me there is too much "guess work" going on around DD and we should become a "skueaky wheel".

            07/05/2013 17:42
            callie 
            07/05/2013 17:42
            callie 
            Re: Personal experience

            I believe the "guesswork" can be attributed to the irregular aspects of Dupuytren's. It is like trying to eat jello with a fork, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think that there could be a direct link to different drugs that have been prescribed for people, and especially older people, but that is very hard to pin down. My Dupuytren's became active again (after being dormant for 13 years when my new doctor prescribed new preventative medicines for me.

              07/05/2013 19:06
              brianprice 
              07/05/2013 19:06
              brianprice 
              Re: Personal experience

              As you say Callie this is difficult condition to pin down. Although the personal experiences of the individuals on this website is interesting and varied to be sure, one cannot generalize from those very well. There may be a lot of people out there who get DT, have surgery, and they are done for a long period of time - and these people may never show up on a website such as this. Some of the experiences with treatment and re-occurence of disease may be coincidental rather that causal relationship. As Brian and others have noted, only research can really bring some order and true understanding to this condition. Since is is not life threatening nor severely debilitating - it probably will be hard to attract attention for grants etc. - unless there is money to be made off it. Unfortunately that type of research is unlikely to shed light on more than just a few aspects of this.

              Bria

                07/05/2013 20:11
                moondanc 
                07/05/2013 20:11
                moondanc 
                Re: Personal experience

                brianprice:
                As you say Callie this is difficult condition to pin down. Although the personal experiences of the individuals on this website is interesting and varied to be sure, one cannot generalize from those very well.

                Bria

                You're right that all of what we're reporting is anecdotal. However, I find it really "interesting" that of the four fellow participants in the Xiaflex trials that I met, each and everyone one of us had the disease get more aggressive and three of us had it appear in our other hand where it never had before. We all reported it to the persons conducting the study. I believe Xiaflex maintains they've had NO reports of this. No, it's not quantifiable but it's a "report"-- sheesh-- when I reported pain in my treated finger at my 9 month followup I was told by the head researcher, "we're not allowed to use the 'P'" word."

                I personally reported it to the FDA while Xiaflex was under consideration for approval-- and yet it doesn't appear on the FDA website-- and I know three people who have reported it directly to Auxillium. I have a reason for concerns...

                report adverse events to FDA:
                http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/default.htm

                  07/05/2013 21:55
                  juliebeesley 
                  07/05/2013 21:55
                  juliebeesley 
                  Re: Personal experience

                  Thanks everyone or your time & effort contributing. It's very much appreciated. Callie: I wonder if you would please detail the types of preventative medicine that your new doctor prescribed? I might steer away from these! I've started acupuncture, but I insisted she kept the needles well away from the DD area. She is instead working to boost my liver function generally. I'll let you know if I've noticed a difference either way.
                  Cheers JulieB

                    07/06/2013 05:40
                    wach 

                    Administrator

                    07/06/2013 05:40
                    wach 

                    Administrator

                    Re: Personal experience

                    Just curious, callie: what specifically did he prescribe?

                    Wolfgang

                    callie:
                    I believe the "guesswork" can be attributed to the irregular aspects of Dupuytren's. It is like trying to eat jello with a fork, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think that there could be a direct link to different drugs that have been prescribed for people, and especially older people, but that is very hard to pin down. My Dupuytren's became active again (after being dormant for 13 years when my new doctor prescribed new preventative medicines for me.

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