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failed NA ?
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07/30/2007 19:44
Luc 
07/30/2007 19:44
Luc 
failed NA ?

I had a first NA one month ago on my little finger and now I notice quite no improvement.
I remember the end of the operation at the "pop" I just shouted out loud. It was very painfull. I believe now that the cord wasn't completely cut or very superficially although the finger wasn't too bent, stage 1, I think.
Is it worth trying NA again with a better practitioner, or is it too risky with cutting nerves, tendons... What about surgery then or radiotherapy ?
Thanks for any help.

07/30/2007 20:14
Randy_H 
07/30/2007 20:14
Randy_H 

Re: failed NA ?

The "snap" or pop of the cord should not be painful because of the nerve agent that is injected beforehand. Secondly, the increase in movement is always immediately apparent. If you have lost that increase in movement it would be because of *very* rapid recurrence, which is possible. Is the chord back? If so, you would be among the few number of cases where NA is ineffective and Open Surgery will be the next step.

Getting a 2nd opinion from an NA doctor wouldn't hurt, however. In my experience the need for this this would be a first, however

07/31/2007 13:22
Dave 
07/31/2007 13:22
Dave 
Re: failed NA ?

I guess it's how you look at it. I remember during my NA, it seemed to me that the needle started the cut and the manipulation of the finger finished severing the cord ... kind of like starting a tear on a strip of duct tape before pulling it off. I recall there being a little sting but certainly tolerable. And I was happy to feel it. Meant that baby was coming apart. I repeat, that's just my impression; the medical reality might be way different.

But in the months since, I've had to stay on top of the tissues with stretching and wearing the brace. I find moist heat really opens those tissues up and maintains the results. All of that advice came from Sue Blackmore my therapist at the Philadelphia Hand Center who was just fabulous.


While I'm ecstatic with my NA, you do have to stay on top of rehab for it to take. My therapist insists the tissues will reset their length ... eventually. It may take months for that to happen.

08/01/2007 16:41
Luc 
08/01/2007 16:41
Luc 
Re: failed NA ?

Thanks Randy and Dave for your quick answer and close attention to my case.
I'm french and I had NA in Paris, in the historical Hospital Lariboisière where NA was first developed if I don't make a mistake..... My impression is that like in any public hospital in France now, doctors are too busy and don't really pay much attention to patients. Ten minutes for each so there's not much time to talk...
So the doctor cut the cord on the front of my little finger (the palm side) and I feel it's more on the side of it. So may be there's a way to start it all over again ? I would appreciate any recommendation about a very good NA doctor here in France if you know any...

Dave, you are mentionning braces, night splint and stretching after NA. Nobody gave me any information about this at the hospital. Just a bandage for three days and two weeks of care and that was about it.

Anyhow I'm going to wait a couple of month before another appointment but what do you mean exactly when you say that tissues reset their length ?

08/01/2007 17:31
Wolfgang

not registered

08/01/2007 17:31
Wolfgang

not registered

NA in France

Luc, do you know who treated you at Lariboisiere? They ought to do it well there ...

Good reports have been on Drs. Lermusiaux (of course, but I don't know whether he is still practising) and Badois. A German doctor, Dr. Meinel, learned NA from Dr. Luc in Aubagne. He told me that Dr. Luc is taking a lot of time for his patients, is very friendly, and very competent. Dr. Luc also recommended a night splint. Aubagne might not be around the corner for you but maybe worth a travel? I think he is also doing NA in Marseille. By the way, you can find a list of NA doctors in France at http://assoc.orange.fr/f.badois-dupuytren/html/gblist.html

Let us know how your story continues!

Wolfgang
PS: I have been trying to contact Lariboisiere on behalf of Dupuytren Society several times but my French is too bad and nobody ever called me back or responded to mail. Could you possibly help me with getting in contact with them? That would be great!

08/01/2007 19:26
Dave 
08/01/2007 19:26
Dave 
Re: failed NA ?

Luc,

Dr. Pess wrote me a prescription for therapy and strict instructions on the type of therapist to look for. I was lucky enough to find a most talented woman near my home outside Philadelphia. For several weeks, I went in twice a week. They would do heat, ultrasound and massage therapy. Should would intrically slide my knuckle around in order to loosen the capsule of tissue around the knuckle. She also built me a custom-made brace. It's a formed piece of plastic that fits around the back of my hand. From the back, a cantilever rises. Through the cantilever runs a wire that connects to a loop around my finger. I pull pack on the wire like a pulley and secure the strap will velcro. She tells me the idea is to not put full stretching pressure on the finger, but rather a slight constant pressure. This causes the tissues in the figure to "reset" their length.

My finger was at 95 degress before the NA. Dr. Pess got me opened up to 25. The therapy opened me up to as much as 15 although it's come back closer to 25 since I stopped going. I should add that I made about a dozen visits and even with much of the therapy covered by my medical insurance, I still paid $15 a visit.

Two other things I learned. One, there are specific stretches to do for the hand and they aren't as simple as pushing your hand flat to the table. That puts pressure in all the wrong places. Also, it's important to do strengthening exercises for the tendon on top of the finger. As you finger bends due to DD, the tendon gets stretched out. Think of a rubber band stretched over the edge of a table. I do extensions against pressure with my finger. Think of lower leg extensions like you would do to strengthen your quad muscles around the knee. I do that daily with my finger.

The therapy was definitely worth it. And they were as amazed with the NA as I was. She had me describe it to her and her colleagues in great detail. I'm definitely going back when I have my other hand done in two weeks.

Hope that helps. Bon chance.

dave

08/02/2007 17:32
marjorie 
08/02/2007 17:32
marjorie 
Re: failed NA ?

Cher Luc,
Bon soir. So sorry to hear that you did not have the best treatment at the Laraboisiere. I was in Paris in September and had an accident with a door on the metro. I went to the Laraboisiere for treatment. I was appalled. It was awful and they told me I would have to wait 6 hours for treatment. I asked for the items I needed to fix the wound myself, ex nurse, but they would not give or sell me anything. I had to go to a pharmacie for the items I needed, the first one would not serve me so I went to another and did not explain why I needed the items.
Back to your problem. Why do you not go to see Dr Jean Luc Lermusiaux. I saw him for my NA and no complaints. His email is jllermusiaux@club-internet.fr His address is 8 Rue Aristide Briand, Gagny 93220. Tel 0143815527. He is a consultant rheumatologist at the Laraboisiere and last year was only doing 3 half days at his private rooms, but, he said he was so busy that he was cutting his hours at the hospital and doing more private NA.
Hope this helps.
Marjorie

Edited at 08/03/07 19:34

08/03/2007 19:10
Luc 
08/03/2007 19:10
Luc 
Re: failed NA ?

Thank you Dave for the technical details about your therapy after NA, it will help me in the future and probalby a lot more people reading your message. I didn't think that NA could work for fingers bent up to 95. I'm very happy that you got your finger back. Stretches are definitely what I need, I guess, to strengthen the operation.

Thank you Wolfgang and Marjorie for your indications. Of course I knew about Dr Lermusiaux but never thought I could reach him, there's still a lot of people coming from abroad just to see him. There must be a long waiting list but anyway I can try. And if you need my help to contact Lariboisiere to develop the Dupuytren Society (which is my best source of information) that's the least I can do to thank you. I just want to point that I don't live in Paris but happen to go there once in a while and also that I am not involved in the medical world. But I'll do my best to translate your needs.

Thanks to you again Marjorie (a lot of nice people here to thank, the Dupuytren family ?). Your story confirms my impression about Lariboisiere and I would add that I don't complain about doctors and their skills, they're with no doubt great professionals. They just run after time and means in public hospitals and give certainly more attention in private practice. I'll check that.

Bonsoir à tous.
Luc

08/06/2007 17:13
marjorie 
08/06/2007 17:13
marjorie 
Re: failed NA ?

Bonsoir Luc,
I have always found Dr Lermusiaux very helpful at fitting me in for NA. I normally say that I will be in Paris on a certain date for x number of days and ask when he will be free to treat me. I usually give him 2 or 3 months notice and I have never had a problem. The last time I saw him he told me that he was getting very busy treating people from all over the world and, that is why he is doing more private and less hospital work. He is such a nice person and he really cares about people. He does not charge much and would make much more money working at the hospital. I email him as he speaks very good English and he reads all his emails. The person who answers the phone does not speak English and my French is not good enough to hold that kind of conversation.
Adieu,
Marjorie

08/07/2007 04:43
Randy_H 
08/07/2007 04:43
Randy_H 

Failed NA? Not by a Long Shot

I think it could be said without complaint that Dr. Lermusiaux has eased the suffering of Dups patients more than any single individual in the last 100 years. This in terms of the number of people treated and the number of Doctors trained. Quit beyond this would be his development of NA itself, now closing in on 40 years ago. Not a cure by any means, but the most significant alternative to Open surgery so far in our life time. Collegenase by BioS may well eclipse NA's effectiveness, but not close to the cost / benefit ratio. I would love to meet the Man.

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