| Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro |
|
|
1 2 3 4
|
| 1 2 3 4
|
|
02/05/2013 05:00
Randy_H 
|
02/05/2013 05:00
Randy_H
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
callie,
No doubt. You know your stuff and how to investigate. Love it!!!!
So why did one of the very top, most revered and highly respected Hand Surgeons in the US elect to use the McCahs Open Palm on me when it wasn't really indicated? I've thought about that, trust me. I about passed out in his office when the final bandages were removed. I took one look at the meatloaf left of my hand and he had to help me to a more supportive chair for a few minuets so the blood could return to my head. He said that reaction was "not usual" I think to help me with my feelings of being a woos. I'm passing out in the doctor's office, so I did take some comfort from that. Part of it was the pain.
You sit in his waiting room and find a pamphlet about how he sewed fingers back on to hands that had been chopped off. They recovered in working condition with the least amount of nerve damage imaginable. Off the Hook.
Seriously.
Why do you bring up this very excellent data about Open Palm in regard to my CHS's choice for me? You have already stated:
You said your surgeon was "pretty good", now I wonder?
From a logic perspective it would seem that you are suggesting that perhaps something is not quite right in my testimony, and perhaps my surgeon was not actually one of most highly regarded in the business. I question that possible conclusion because......why would you do that?
|
|
|
|
|
02/05/2013 14:29
callie
|
02/05/2013 14:29
callie
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
It is remarkable that this method of surgery was chosen for you from your desription of your hand. The literature was widespread (before your surgery) that the McCash method was very seldom, or ever, used for a single digit contracture that was not extensively contracted. I could source other opinions stressing the same opinion. I have no doubt that your recollection of the procedure is correct and that leaves many questions.
I think your representation of Dupuytren's surgery is greatly influenced by your personal experience that was not normal. That's all. It is interesting.
I don't doubt that your surgeon was very good, as you said. I would expect that I would have had the same feelings about Dupuytren's surgery as you if my experience would have been similar.
Edited 02/05/13 16:41
|
|
|
|
|
02/05/2013 22:34
Randy_H
|
02/05/2013 22:34
Randy_H
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
I agree that the use of McCash in my case was unusual. I never asked him what his rational was. I've always suspected it was that choice that contributed to my apparent life long complication. However, none of the 5 CHS that I have talked to in person have given any support to that theory. Eaton didn't.
That I am now forever biased against OS is without question. That's why I have always tried to focus on facts and data to support my position that choosing the least invasive procedure first (NA / Xiaflex) is the best initial move when dealing with Dups.
Those of the opposing viewpoint non-remarkably seem to be those who have great ease and success with OS.
Funny how that works.
|
|
|
|
|
02/06/2013 01:20
callie
|
02/06/2013 01:20
callie
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
There is a difference.
You said, "That I am now forever biased against OS is without question".
and then, "Those of the opposing viewpoint non-remarkably seem to be those who have great ease and success with OS".
I don't have an "opposing viewpoint" and I haven't heard one from anyone. I have had RT and have endorsed the use of NA. I think it is great that there are choices and all of the procedures have a place in the battle with Dupuytren's. I don't attempt to degrade NA (or Xiaflex, or RT) just because I might prefer surgery in some situations. I might have an opinion that Xiaflex is expensive and short on long term results, but I wouldn't try to discourage someone from using it. Same with NA, or RT.
|
|
|
|
|
02/06/2013 02:02
Randy_H
|
02/06/2013 02:02
Randy_H
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
Looks like we agree then. Try this on: The non-invasive procedure of NA and Xiaflex should, in most cases, tried first before resorting to more invasive approaches. And perhaps we agree that in some cases , especially aggressive ones, that OS has a lower rate of recurrence. From what I've read OS with skin graft is the ultimate weapon. Few need that but I'm glad it's there when appropriate.
(Really Dr. X. Why the McCahs?)
|
|
|
|
|
02/06/2013 02:53
Danch 
|
02/06/2013 02:53
Danch
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
newman:
Hi Danch Australia Calling. In 07 I had a repeat surgery on my right index finger and within 4 weeks I had numerous nodules develope in the web and thumb adjacent to the surgery. Also a nodule deveoped on the left index finger. I travelled to Germany Prof Seegenschmiedt treated both hands . The left hand had 30gy whereas I received 15gy on the right hand. With weeks the nodules on the right had disappeared . However the nodule on the left had did not . In my case each surgery started the clock ticking with the time span between each surgery reducing .I suggest watching the 2010 presentation by Prof Ilse Degreef who won the Dupuytren Society 2010 award. My understanding it is impossible to remove "all" of the diseased tissue.Click on the top right of the web page Research Dupuytren Award.Scroll down and click the link to view and hear her presentation.
Thank you Newman. I will take this into account. I will check it out. It seems common to have an op and to have more nodules. Seems that I have a mixed bad of possible actual depuytrens nodules and knuckle pads. But in a way, they may have similar, if not same, origins. As well as my frozen shoulder. I will check out what you have shared. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
02/06/2013 03:03
Danch
|
02/06/2013 03:03
Danch
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
Randy_H:
Danch, my man. Dial it down a bit.......You will be ok.
Look, you don't need surgery. Not now, and in all probability never. An in the very small chance you ever did, don't read my case as normal. I'm the outlier. 99% of people doing OS for the first time do better than I. That's not to say I'd ever advise OS unless NA and/or Xiaflex were not effective (almost never).
So, no Shamans, all right? (though some thought Eaton was one for a while :)
I saw a video of Dave Matthews' drummer wearing golf gloves while playing. Went out an bought a lefty and now the Dups surgery has no effect on my playing at all. Look, I freaked out too, OK? It's normal because you don't know what might happen.
If you want to do something, look into RT. Otherwise, don't fret and just hang out with us.
Dialing down. Down indeed.
Okay. I agree. I DO NOT want surgery. I feel that is what may have sparked it, made it flare (I think the surgeon knew this would/might happen after all was said and done, but didnt tell me - if either for legal/insurance reasons or what have you - I will never be able to read his black book of observations Im sure).
No Shaman? Well. Priest then? :) Either way, or NONE, Im not against it. But without is okay too. I had a moment Friday night. I did freak out. I was overwhelmed. But watching you and Cassie talk and progress onwards, even though very detailed, makes me feel comforted in a strange way. Im not so bad. Yet. Hopefully never. But. Im 38. Old but not old. Young but not young. I have years for stuff to develop on/in my body. Maybe new techniques will prevail in the med community. But I fear profit speaks louder than cure in the US. So. Anyhow. blah blah blah. Maybe drinking less would help, too.
Thanks for your kind words. I happen to like Dave Matthews (not extremely, but appreciate).
Golf gloves. Hmm. Can one play guitar with those on? Interesting to ponder.
|
|
|
|
|
02/06/2013 05:03
Randy_H
|
02/06/2013 05:03
Randy_H
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
Danch,
"I DO NOT want surgery" you say?
Well, who would?
Would you want Open Heart when angioplasty would do? Perhaps Open Knee when Arthroscopy will fix the torn meniscus? The trend in surgery is toward the less and less invasive. Lucky for us with Dups, the 150 year reign of Open Surgery as the only option ended in France over 30 years ago with the invention of NA by Dr. Lermusiaux.
Now as Collagenase, NA's enzyme-based younger brother, takes ascendency in the US it will be interesting to see what role OS continues to have. With a lower rate of recurrence it has it's advantages in some cases. However it will take some time to find out what percent of all cases eventually need to resort to this much higher level of invasiveness. When you include the advances in RT I'm going to go way out on a limb (no pun intended) and guess that going forward no more than 10 to 20% of all cases requiring correction will resort to OS.
I know of no current stats on that. Anyone got some? This will be something to watch.
I love it, but then, I'm completely biased.
The golf glove on my surgically treated hand allows me to hold on to a stick without the blisters caused by the lack of flexation I now deal with. Otherwise I can't really hold a stick for long. By the way....see and/or google "Sound City", the movie)
Edited 02/06/13 17:28
|
|
|
|
|
02/06/2013 20:22
flojo
|
02/06/2013 20:22
flojo
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
Danch,
Your quote, "But I fear profit speaks louder than cure in the US."
So sad but so true. I'm going to use your words in other forums. If not okay, let me know!
Thanks!
Flora
|
|
|
|
|
02/06/2013 22:39
Danch
|
02/06/2013 22:39
Danch
|
Re: Question of authenticity of biopsy and Intro
Randy_H:
Danch,
"I DO NOT want surgery" you say?
Well, who would?
Would you want Open Heart when angioplasty would do? Perhaps Open Knee when Arthroscopy will fix the torn meniscus? The trend in surgery is toward the less and less invasive. Lucky for us with Dups, the 150 year reign of Open Surgery as the only option ended in France over 30 years ago with the invention of NA by Dr. Lermusiaux.
Now as Collagenase, NA's enzyme-based younger brother, takes ascendency in the US it will be interesting to see what role OS continues to have. With a lower rate of recurrence it has it's advantages in some cases. However it will take some time to find out what percent of all cases eventually need to resort to this much higher level of invasiveness. When you include the advances in RT I'm going to go way out on a limb (no pun intended) and guess that going forward no more than 10 to 20% of all cases requiring correction will resort to OS.
I know of no current stats on that. Anyone got some? This will be something to watch.
I love it, but then, I'm completely biased.
The golf glove on my surgically treated hand allows me to hold on to a stick without the blisters caused by the lack of flexation I now deal with. Otherwise I can't really hold a stick for long. By the way....see and/or google "Sound City", the movie)
Randy,
Well... I think it was you that was telling me not to (unless extreme?), so I was going with that frame of mind when I said that, and I think it was good advice - yes, I am disregarding SOME details but I think the point was made well; in effect I was responding to you. I could debate that point in general, though, in regards to not wanting surgery. :) I had a tooth infection that spread to the left side of my face; it was so painful, that I begged to have it extracted. I was welcoming surgery - if one could deem that surgery, really. And I am glad I did, and now one tooth minus am I! It was one of the options, and I wanted it OUT. The worst pain since my appendix burst when I was 14, 24 years ago. But for certain things like Dups, there are (as I am now learning) more options than operating at the slightest inkling of it. Which I am grateful for these options. So yes, maybe I stated the obvious. Which I am not immune to at times. :) My next step is to get to a specialist who actually KNOWS about Dups, not some quack who thinks the only way to find out what it is, is to remove it. THAT is ridiculous. Have we not advanced enough? I think we have, but I think the problem lies in the insurance companies, and backdoor policies that "customers" are not supposed to know. I know this, because I have friends in the medical field. I digress.
Again, I appreciate hearing what you have to share. Its eye opening.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1 2 3 4
|
| 1 2 3 4
|
359 users online
Login
