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Found NA in the USA
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10/31/2003 23:25
Sean 
10/31/2003 23:25
Sean 
Jerry

Jerry,
Here are some and I can get more when I have time. Hope this helps you. Have a good time reading.

1. Gordon S. Anderson, DUPUYTREN'S cONTRACTURE FOLLOWING INJURY. British Journal of Plastic Surgery 1961;129-131.

2. Lanzetta M. Morrison, dUPUYTREN'S DISEASE OCCURRING AFTER A SURGICAL INJURY TO THE HAND. Journal of Hand Surgery (BR) 1996; 21:481-483.

3. Mikkelsen OA, DUPUYTREN'S DISEASE-THE INFLUENCE OF OCCUPATION AND PREVIOUS HAND INJURIES. Hand 1978; 10:1-8

4. McFarlane RM, DUPUYTREN'S DISEASE: rELATION TO WORK AND INJURY. Journal of Hand Surgery 1991; 16:775-779.

5. Roush TF, Stern PJ. RESULTS FOLLOWING SURGERY FO RECURRENT DUPUYTREN'S DISEASE. Journal of Hand Surgery 2000; 25:291-296.

10/31/2003 23:27
Steve

not registered

10/31/2003 23:27
Steve

not registered

Sean

Sean,

When I first found and posted on this message board months ago I found out quickly that others did not like your viewpoint on the disease. I have not been on this board for a few months and when I returned this week I saw that you are still in the minority for your stand on certain issues related to Dupuytrens and its allies.

I have no desire to get into a personality conflict with someone on the internet so I respect your viewpoint as well as the next guy's if it is logical. thought out, and written with a modicum of sincerity.

I wanted you to know what the orthopaedic surgeon that operated on my finger in May told me about physical trauma and its relationship to the onset of Dupuytrens. The information he told me was from his experience in the medical field. His specialty is the hands. He stated that trauma to the body parts that exhibit this disease, mainly the hands and feet, often stimulate the onset of the disease's symptons, especially in females. He relayed that females have come into his practice after an accident or sports related injury concerned that they have bumps or such on their hands, which end up being diagnosed as Dupuytrens. The doctor also said that surgery is a type of trauma to the body and could in fact cause the disease to appear or grow back. At the same time he emphasized it's the flip of the coin as to whom the surgery will affect in that manner or not.

I do not desire for my statements to stir up a hornet's nest on this message board regarding surgery vs. nonsurgery. If you've had success with no reoccurence, I want to hear about it. If others have had limited or no success with surgery, I want to read about their situations also. From what I've read and experienced, this disease has a mind of its own and affects different people in different ways.

To all posters: if someone prefers a different treatment than yours, please don't rant and rave about it. I hope I speak for most reasonable people who are concerned about this disease, I want the facts from different peoples' experiences, not someone determined to proclaim that his or her treatment is the only one that works. Even most cancers have different treatments due to modern medicine.

I ramble.

10/31/2003 23:03
JERRY 
10/31/2003 23:03
JERRY 
TRAUMA

Steve; Thank you for a fine post. You can locate my FLARE article, which corroborates your Doc's findings at;

http://jvm.com/wstagner/dlinks.htm

Sean; Those sites agree with my findings. Thanks for your help.

10/31/2003 23:11
Sean 
10/31/2003 23:11
Sean 
Steve/Jerry

Steve,
We are in agreement. Trauma may or may not stimulate the growth of Dupuytren's. From the studies that have taken place over a considerable length of time indicate that recurrence is more prevelant from NA and fasciotomies than it is for fasciectomies. The thinking of many is that removing the diseased tissue will affect but may not eliminate recurrence. The only question is for the individual patient to decide if he/she would prefer NA or a fasciotomy and have more procedures than having a fasciectomy. Obviously, some would make that choice, others might not. But I'm not going to jump up and down insisting that there is only one choice, because there isn't just one choice.

Jerry,
You must have a very efficient medical library. It took me a couple of weeks to get and read the material. The information is not available on the internet. How did you come to the conclusion that the studies support your idea? Surgery isn't synonymous with trauma as you try to portray. Are you saying that there should be no surgery for anything or just no hand surgery? Uncontrolled trauma can in some instances stimulate Dupuytren's. There is a great difference in controlled and uncontrolled trauma. It is why most people do not have much pain from Dupuytren's surgery. Whereas if their hand was just ripped open by an accident, there would be considerable pain. All surgery doesn't necessarily trigger Dupuytren's.

11/01/2003 23:45
JERRY 
11/01/2003 23:45
JERRY 
Recurrence Rates

Sean,

I am already familiar with the sites you have mentioned. I am sorry I got into this no-win dialog with you. Your post to Steve was also misleading.

I hope you continue to enhance your low esteem of yourself by having your name in the limelight.

11/01/2003 23:08
Randy H.

not registered

11/01/2003 23:08
Randy H.

not registered

Recurrence Rates

After 30 years worth of NA, the French doctors have observed the rate of recidivism between fasciectomy and NA to be very equivalent:

"The five-year recurrence rate is high (>50%) with both procedures, however, needle fasciotomy can be repeated as often as needed, whereas start again surgical procedure is hazardous."

http://assoc.wanadoo.fr/f.badois-dupuytren/html/gbefficace.html

Now, it might be argued by some that the "cream of the crop" micro surgeons have a lower recurrence rate than the average bear. Lets go further. For the sake of argument lets stack the deck and suppose two things 1) Surgery does not cause trauma and/or additional Dups. 2) NA has TWICE the rate of occurrence of traditional fasciectomy. This represents the WORST POSSIBLE scenario for the comparison of NA to fasciectomy. I've have never had NA. I've only seen a film of the procedure and read the overwhelming positive reports listed here and elsewhere. I have, however, had one fasciectomy by the top doc at UCLA. I'm told by all he did a splendid job. Bottom Line: I'd rather have NA performed every year for the rest of my days than to go back under the knife again. Even if it were ture (and it's probably not) the argument of reoccurrence falls on completely deaf ears for me.

The argument of reoccurrence only has significance when comparing between two invasive surgical procedures. Even if true (and that's a stretch) It's of little meaning for a twenty minute needle session and zero physical therapy.


11/02/2003 23:56
Sean 
11/02/2003 23:56
Sean 
NA

Randy H,
If I would have had an experience such as yours, I also would probably consider NA. Actually, I will always consider NA as well as surgery. I hope the data that comes from Dr. Eaton's practice will be enlightening.

11/02/2003 23:11
jim h

not registered

11/02/2003 23:11
jim h

not registered

Needle Aponevrotomy Results

I suspect there's another factor not being accounted for in these numbers.

When you prune a shrub, it comes back denser than before. The same may be true of Dupuytren's tissue and if so, that's an argument for surgically removing all the affected tissue. Just severing the bands might cause them to reform thicker and stronger each time. If so, you might get to a point where NA techniques could no longer safely rupture the cords, and surgery would be required. That surgery might be more extensive and damaging than it would have been years earlier if the NA route hadn't been taken.

Just speculation. I can't point to any studies or testimonials suggesting this may be true. But often we find that the "quick fix" was not the best long-term solutino.

11/02/2003 23:00
JERRY 
11/02/2003 23:00
JERRY 
Needle Aponevrotomy Results

Jim,

In actuality the opposite is true. The more invasive the surgery, the more resultant trauma.

I am certain you read the updated statistics of those that responded after their surgical and Aponevrotomy procedures.

Those figures were responses from patients with a minimum of 2 years after procedure.

11/11/2003 23:54
Don Westin

not registered

11/11/2003 23:54
Don Westin

not registered

Needle Aponevrotomy Results

Yes, indeed. I agree.

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