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NA for DC Appointment - DR. Bourland
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10/26/04 02:44
Frances

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10/26/04 02:44
Frances

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Ad Nauseum

Dear Imas,

You have aready had this conversation with myself and others...each time you have been told over and over again that the need for training is to PROTECT patients from incapable doctors. What more can I say? Or is it that you don't want to hear it?

Now Imas I have a question for you...If the training is so little in your mind.....What's the problem with getting it? After all...Dr. Eaton felt it necessary....and Dr. Denkler has already stated that he is willing to go....so what's the problem? Why do you want it to be ok for a doctor to have no training in the NA that we have all had?

Frances

10/26/04 02:46
Frances

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10/26/04 02:46
Frances

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Chicken and Egg

Dear Fred,

Dr. Eaton learned NA in France and it would be wonderful if he became an NA teacher but to my knowledge this has not yet become part of his practice...so France or Switzerland it is.

Cheers
Frances

10/26/04 02:31
Gerry Widen

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10/26/04 02:31
Gerry Widen

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NA Training

I get the feeling Dr Eaton is not interested in training other US doctors (other than to put on his staff)I have no idea why????

10/26/04 02:28
Fred 
10/26/04 02:28
Fred 
NA Training

An NA practitioner should accept all DD cases. No hand should be rejected. An initial exam should allow all possible DD patients the option of NA if possible. If Dr. Eaton is not training NA practitioner, then I concede that training should be given by French or Swiss doctors.

One problem with doctors who are not properly trained is that they accept only the easiest cases. That helps very few of us. Many of us have PIP contractions or complicated contractions following surgery. Training by doctors who have considerable experience treating difficult DD cases should be required of all who wish to treat NA patients.

10/26/04 02:06
Frances

not registered

10/26/04 02:06
Frances

not registered

Thank you once again

Dear Randy and Fred,

Thank you for speaking up. Fred you point about untrained doctors chosing only the easiest of cases was excellent, and Randy, you are once again clear-headed and eloquent.

Take care,
Frances

10/27/04 02:01
Tommy

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10/27/04 02:01
Tommy

not registered

Eaton

Randy,

You nailed it. The fact that Dr. Eaton sent Dr. Zidel to Paris instead of attempting to pass on the technique (at least at this point) speaks volumes.

I'm flying from L.A. for an appointment with Dr. Eaton in February. I just realized that Dr. Zidel is within my BC-BS network while Dr. Eaton is not. I'll definitely save money by switching my appointment to the new guy, but do I really want to do that? Any thoughts, anyone?

10/27/04 02:47
Gordon 
10/27/04 02:47
Gordon 
NA Training - Dr. Zidel

Tommy,

Lets give some thought as to why Doctor Zidel Went to Paris for a couple of days observation and discussion of the NA procedure rather than Doctor Eaton givig him the training. To me there seems to be a BIG reason for this action. With all the on-going Paris publicity on this tread, and other avenues, the motive appears to be money motivate, more patients by making the short trip to Paris. He gets much more exposure, thus more patients. Don't get me wrong. I am not against making money. Lets face it, medicine/surgery, NA, etcetera is a business to make money as well as treat patients. Doctor Eaton could easily have trained Doctor Zidel, however, this would not have been in the best interest of business at this time. I am not against Doctor Zidel going to Paris, it's just good for business: more patients, more money boosted by, as indicated, all the bandwagon/hype on the Paris trip. Publicity, publicity and publicity. If I were with the "Hand Center" I would do the same thing. Later, I have a feeling that this will change. Some insight is available as I worked with the medical profession as a Hospital Administrator and the Pill makers. Do you think that the Drug Companies are in business just to help patients? No, they are in the business to make BIG money. They are entitled to a fair profit. If you have had a perscription filled lately take a look a the price. You may faint,however,I hope not.

Well, this is something to think about - strain your brain a bit, perhaps get you upset a little (just guessing). Don't let this stop anyone from getting the best medical care possible, and push the movement for NA and lower prices on drugs.

Good night, and good luck!




10/28/04 02:47
Randy H.

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10/28/04 02:47
Randy H.

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Didn~sq~t answer Tommy~sq~s question

Gordon,

As you are an industry insider I must respect your insights. However, I personally know some political insiders and am often amazed at their cynicism and assumption of the self serving motives of others. I have not met Eaton personally, though it now seems destined that I will. Perhaps I'm merely a nave with a blinding naivete, but your reasoning smacks of the same paranoid assumption of manipulation by the other Party I heard way too much of while working political campaigns as a younger man.

There are some additional motives Eaton may have had beyond pure Profit in sending Zidel for French certification. Perhaps the man has a high regard for Lexenmark in spite of the fact that he may well be ready to Snatch The Pebble from his hand. Perhaps he is appreciative of Lermusiaux's contribution and wants to set a humble example of submitting to those who have perfected the procedure over the last 30 years. Perhaps Eaton means what he says that "it's only a matter of time" until the rest of his profession wakes from their obsession with Traditional Invasive Surgery and adds NA to what Dr. Keith Denkler rightly calls the "ladder of treatment". And exactly who is in the #1 position to facilitate this paradigm shift in his profession? Eaton.

I will wait and see what he does to shake up the establishment from which he comes (**and create his own competition**) before I assign a pure profit agenda to his actions. I think he's making all the right moves a man who wants to change the way Dups is treated in the US. Should he profit by being a pioneer? You bet. Where's my checkbook!! Lets make his colleagues envious.

You didn't answer Tommy's question. Should he lay his hand down for the "new guy" or insist on Eaton? Well, do you think Eaton would risk his reputation and that of the Hand Center and NA in general with a guy in whom he didn't have complete confidence?

10/28/04 02:06
Frances

not registered

10/28/04 02:06
Frances

not registered

Agreed

Dear Gordon,

Perhaps Dr. Eaton doesn't feel ready to teach. Perhaps he feels the Paris training will weed out the wanna-be's who are just after the money. Perhaps he too believes in keeping a minimum requirement of training for performing NA so there will be continuity between doctors...hummmm these are a lot of of good reasons to want to see a trained doctor.

This NA procedure is about crippled hands for goodness sake...there must be a minimum standard of education for performing NA to protect the patient. There must be
continuity from doctor to doctor as to *how* it is performed for patient and family doctor confidence in the procedure when making a referal.

Let's look for a moment look at other procedures and what is the 'industry standard'....say....a simple procedure like Botox injections for wrinkles inbetween the eyebrows...nothing complicated.

You would think that any capable doctor could open up the box, read the instructions then perform the procedure, correct? It's just wrinkles...right? No, actually they can't.

To be qualified to use Botox injections even a seasoned practitioner must receive training from those who *know how* to train. Why? Continuity. So...why would we not expect the same for our hands?

You can argue till you are blue in the face, I personally will *not* lay down my hands to a doctor who has no received specific training in NA. My hands are to precious to gamble with.

Frances




10/29/04 02:07
Tommy

not registered

10/29/04 02:07
Tommy

not registered

changing doctors

Hi everyone, I'm keeping my appointment with Dr. Eaton in February. I was considering going with Dr. Zidel because he's in my BC-BS network and Dr. Eaton is not, however,it turns out that I'll be paying no more than an extra $400 by sticking with Dr. Eaton. I'd also have to pay the "Friendly Skies" a $200 penalty for changing our 2 mileage plus award tickets if I changed my initial plans. I appreciate the e-mails I've received both pro and con. Gordon, I'm not the least bit upset with the points you've mentioned. It baffles me that some folks on this forum get angry when Sean/Gary mentions that he had successful surgury for dupuytrens. I want to hear both sides of ANY issue.

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