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United States Studies ??
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05/09/2005 23:56
Dave Bean

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05/09/2005 23:56
Dave Bean

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United States Studies ??

I discussed the Needle Aponeurotomy with a relative and her doctor in Denver, Colorado. While he was not open to discussing alternatives to Open Surgury, he did have a good point in that he said that he reads all of the medical journals and had not heard of any information from respected institutions like the Mayo Clinic about alternative procedures. Where are the US studies ??

05/09/2005 23:41
Randy H.

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05/09/2005 23:41
Randy H.

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Good Question. Strange Answer

The *first* Certified Hand Surgeon to begin doing NA in the US only started less than *two* years ago. He will be presenting his clinical data to "those interested" at the 2006 convention of CHS. Without follow up of >5 years showing definitive rates of recurrence, publishing the data would be worthless in his view. So, we have more than three years to go before anything of significant value can or will be published.

Strange as it may seem, *this* little site, full of anonymous testimonies, is the very best data set regarding NA results currently available anywhere. A fascinating and unintended (by our host) use of the Internet, changing the way a disease will be treated that hasn't changed all that much in the last 50 years. Exciting to watch.

05/10/2005 23:30
Dave Bean

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05/10/2005 23:30
Dave Bean

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Results are soon

Unlike drug trials that may go on for ever the N/A results are pretty much immediate with a question of how long the results last. Cost savings have been estimated at 10x with better results in many cases. Some doctors mentioned in this forum(not ours) seem to be aware of the procedure, even though they don't do it.

2 years and 1000 surguries mentioned ... strange that more surgeons are not doing it or at least articles written in the journals.

Thanks for reply.

05/10/2005 23:58
Gary M Pess, MD

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05/10/2005 23:58
Gary M Pess, MD

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NA Studies

Though the results of NA are immediate, published studies need a minimum of 2 year followup. This is 2 years after the last case included in the study. It will take time to convince docs of the advantages.

Sincerely,
Gary Pess, MD
http://centraljerseyhand.com

05/11/2005 23:38
Brian

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05/11/2005 23:38
Brian

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Progress outside the box

Although I had NA in France to correct my 30 degree pinkie contracure, I can empathize with U.S. Hand Surgeons
guided by "primum non nocerum." or "do no harm." As obvious
as it may seem to us, that our symptoms are relieved, conscientious and well-intententioned Doctors cannot "jump"
on attractive "band wagons." They have a responsibility to
offer the best, evidence based, alternatives. Remember
Laetrile, and Thalidomide. The delay is frustrating; it is
not a capitalist conspiracy. Thanks to this site and others, patient testimonials are advancing the cause for
effective and reliable treatment modalities. Doctors are
responding. Supply and demand will mandate credentialing.
We can be optimistic about gradually increasing accessibility to NA outside Europe. Keep pushing! The Aussies have even more to complain about; they are several
times zones from any practioners and without any insurance
assistance. Modest improvements in the US and Canada may
mean dramatic improvement "down under." How about an NA
presentation at a C.E.U. seminar (A.M.A. or the like?)
Dr. Eaton seems like the most likely candidate once he has
the data from his cases. His patients might encourage him.
Thanks everyone.

05/11/2005 23:03
ratso

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05/11/2005 23:03
ratso

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What a joke

The best evidence is often suppressed in the US in favor of drug company profits. Look at the arthritis drugs that cause a 50 percent greater chance of heart attacks and then read of the FDA employee who, while attempting to relay this information years ago, was effectively silenced and continues to be silenced.

The notion that the American medical establishment does not engage in conspiracy or attempts to destroy competition is pie in the sky, doesn't wash, far fetched, unrealistic, etc. Personally I'd find it easier to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the intellectual prowess of G W Bush.

A prime example is how the AMA tried to discredit/destroy the practice of chiropractic. Surely, and here I'm being incredibly sarcastic, they were only looking out for our good. This has been well documented.

05/11/2005 23:18
Dave Bean

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05/11/2005 23:18
Dave Bean

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US surgeon list

I can understand reluctance for surgeons to jump at "unproven" procedures. Because of the cost benefit, seems like HMOs and insurance companies would want to encourage.

Perhaps we can help things along by providing visbility to US surgeons doing the Needle procedure. Is there a master internet list of US Needle procedure surgeons? If now maybe we could provide (I'd be glad to help).

05/12/2005 23:04
Randy H.

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05/12/2005 23:04
Randy H.

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Different Perspective

Ratso, my Conspiracy Theorist friend, I'm going with Brian on this one. "Follow the Money" and you will find that US NA practitioners make the same $$$ per hour as they do when doing OS. I've done the math here till my fingers hurt worst than the already do.

In the US, OS and NA are small potatoes done by a small handful of CHS as a small sub-speciality. This is not a World Wide Energy Embargo. In the financial-medical scheme of things, it adds up to how many degrees of contracture I have on my left ring PIP after NA....Zero.

Once the data being compiled each Monday through Friday is clearly presented in fashion readily consumed by the surgically inclined traditionalists, the Vale will be removed from their eyes. Low and Behold, by golly, and as if by magic, many will suddenly become geniuses and present to their patients NA as if they themselves had invented it. The French will be forgotten, and maybe someone, somewhere, will mention a certain Dr. Eaton.

You See, I can be as cynical as you. I just think it's about Tradition, CYOS, and a tad of healthy professional Ego.

If You Straighten Them (and have the right data to *prove* it), They Will Come.

05/12/2005 23:09
ratso

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05/12/2005 23:09
ratso

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Look Below the Surface - Read Between the Lines

Don't really see myself as a conspiracy theorist, just don't believe that what appears on the surface is really what is going on but what someone wants you to believe (look at the mess in Iraq--does anybody but the most die hard Fox news addict really believe the ever changing official reasons? In relation to that, if you still believe the US gov, read the MATTHEW RYCROFT memo uncovered during the British electoral process.).

The facts regarding the arthritis drugs (such as celebrex etc) and the FDA are in print should anybody want to look.

It's well documented that the AMA tried to destroy chiropractic by discrediting their schools and getting insurance companies to not pay for their services. Unfortunately, chiropractic gets people back to work quicker and those damn insurance companies wouldn't cooperate.

The belief that the medical industry places care above profits is laughable and yet ultimately sad. It maybe that NA costs as much here as traditional surgery, but my guess would be that when the additional fees for therapy etc. are added in, the cost can be more than little more. Plus, from what I've read it only cost about 80 - 150 USD to have it performed in France.

05/12/2005 23:11
Randy H.

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05/12/2005 23:11
Randy H.

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The Past Board Mask

No ratso, all I'm saying is that in the US, Eaton has apparently set a price for NA such that a CHS makes an equivalent total $$$/hr when he does NA or OS. So financially, the surgeon doesn't care which he does. He now has no financial bias either way.

Now, who *does* loose are the hospitals with the operating rooms, the team of nurses and other docs that swarm around you as they put you under for OS, and the physical therapists. That's who doesn't get paid with NA. Does the CHS who did a NA instead of an OS *care* if the other segment of the medical food chain gets cut out of the loop? If we go by the general *greed* theory you support, the answer is NO (unless we invoke the "kick back" theory).

If we go by the theory that some docs will do NA out of actual *consideration* for the patient, the answer is *still* NO. He doesn't care. His other pals can do something else. The total % of Dups recovery that PTs do is small compared to all the other things they do. Who wins Big Time will be the insurance companies. But Dups is such small potatoes, and NA is so new to the US, this has not donned on them yet. It will

I'm making a case that NA is *not* being suppressed in the US out of greed on the part of the society of CHS meeting in the back room, conspiring to keep doing only OS. Sorry. There is Zero evidence for that. (I hear Prozak is helpful for mild cases of paranoia.)

There *are* other frustrating reasons NA will be slow to be accepted, but you haven't made the case that it's Cash in *this* particular case. Financially, NA Vs OS is a *wash* for those who will make the decision as to what procedure to recommend.

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