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Dupuytren~sq~s Disease
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02/10/2005 23:40
Name withheld

not registered

02/10/2005 23:40
Name withheld

not registered

Breath people breath

Woa....... This forum has been under attack since approximately last march by a troll. That person has had multiple nicknames (some times female), hyjacks other people's handles then posts nasty things to incite tempers; they often post about NA when NA was not even discussed in a thread etc....people who have been that posters victim have let the forum know to protect themselves and 'yes' at times it seems NA is the only topic - but that is not because of us, that is because our resident troll pops up and puts in an advertisement for his favorite doctor using NA as the excuse.


I think you must take that into consideration before you give anyone heck for their behaviour. Randy is one of the few who weathered many most difficult months of that posters nonsense. He did so with grace, skill and kindness and is an asset to this forum. His contributions are enormous and unwavering.

So onto my next point....unfortunately, attacks directed to ones personality are usually the work of our troll so Randy...if you are listening....have we been hoodwinked again? Remember a while back there was someone who said 'shame on us'? Could it be our same person again? Our troll? They usually post like this after one of us has scored a good point and/or revealed them for what they are. The technique is one of deflection.

Read it again buddy..... I think have you been 'Frances-ized'.

Name withheld

02/10/2005 23:31
Ketih Denkler MD

not registered

02/10/2005 23:31
Ketih Denkler MD

not registered

Randy H

Thanks Randy H for your thoughtful points. As a surgeon who has cared for hundreds of patients with Dupuytren's, your thoughts are well said.
This board is an "open" forum and a great place to discuss new ideas to be shared by all.
By the time NA has "caught on" with hand surgeons, newer and better techniuqes may be available. I would love to have collagenase available for my patients, but it is still under study by the FDA and I don't know when I will be able to use it!
Till then, there are multiple techniques that may be used for Dupuytren's. These range from NA to major excisions and skin grafts.
I think NA is a significant advance, yet believe me, it will take years before it becomes popular among hand surgeons or plastic surgeons a group.
Keith

02/11/2005 23:55
Michael

not registered

02/11/2005 23:55
Michael

not registered

NA in the palm


I have an NA question:

1) When a dup's cord in a finger is snapped after NA, it results in the eventual dissolving way of the dup's tissue in the finger. Does it also result in the dissolving away of the cord tissue along the tendon in the palm that leads to that finger? In general, does NA offer any relief for palmar dup's, or is it only for the fingers?

Thanks, MML

02/12/2005 23:43
Mr Candid

not registered

02/12/2005 23:43
Mr Candid

not registered

NA Issues

To my knowledge NA does not disolve anything, it only releases the cord. This fact was my surgeons biggest complaint with NA '...the disease is still in there...'. Yes, but my finger is straight so who cares...plus neither surgery nor NA halts the progression of DC so....the disease also remains with surgery. It's true that the doctor can scrape away the lumpiness, but, it does return.....it's only a matter of when.

Hope this clarifies things.

02/12/2005 23:43
OldCdog

not registered

02/12/2005 23:43
OldCdog

not registered

NA Issues

"To my knowledge NA does not disolve anything, it only releases the cord. This fact was my surgeons biggest complaint with NA '...the disease is still in there...'."

Having been through NA twice now with Dr. Eaton, I can vouch
for the fact that the cords grow back. Unfortunately, in
my case, rather quickly. It still beats the invasive
surgery procedure, but is not, for me at least, a long
term solution. Hopefully someday there will in fact be a cure such as collagenase injection, perhaps in conjunction
with NA, that permanently cures DP.
Alan

02/12/2005 23:17
No Name

not registered

02/12/2005 23:17
No Name

not registered

NA Issues

Alan,

Another problem rarely mentioned with NA is the possibility of cutting nerves or arteries. Although rare, it can happen. Not to mention that NA can accelerate dups. But, I've told by a hand surgeon that for some patients (particularly older ones), it may be the better option, although I felt comfortable with surgery. It will approach a year soon and so far, so good.

02/12/2005 23:18
George Barbarow

not registered

02/12/2005 23:18
George Barbarow

not registered

Cord Regeneration or Growth

Fifteen months ago Dr. Eaton released the pinky and ring finger of my right hand ( see http://www.angelfire.com/rings/dupuytrens/ )

I have had a cord in the palm of my left hand for several years but it seems to be staying the same and is not yet ready for NA ( no contracture).

The right hand now has cords forming again or perhaps the old ones are enlarging; but,I would certainly go back to
Dr. Eaton for NA if these cords cause finger contracture of more than about twenty-five degrees.
Mine was quick easy and painless and Medicare paid the bill.

If I had to go back annually, I would do that rather than face the hideous old surgery.

I would have surgery only if Dr. Eaton suggested it as the better method.

02/12/2005 23:23
No name

not registered

02/12/2005 23:23
No name

not registered

Long Term Solutions

It's my understanding that at the moment, NA and Surgery are *both* temporary ways of dealing with DC.

I think our best bet for a long term solution lies with Dr. Bing Siang Gan (see thread below with his name). The Collegenase study has been so intermitent and fragile that I don't know if it will ever get done. I hope it does but am not holding my breath.

No name

02/12/2005 23:47
Michael

not registered

02/12/2005 23:47
Michael

not registered

The question


No, you guys missed the point of my question.

In NA, to release contracture, a dup's cord in a finger is severed. As I understand it, over time, the cord tissue is broken down and re-absorbed into the body (this isn't to say that new tissue won't grow back). But does the operation have any effect on dup's tissue along the palmar tendon that leads to that finger? Is NA ever used directly on palmar dup's?

- MML

02/12/2005 23:44
Randy H.

not registered

02/12/2005 23:44
Randy H.

not registered

http://www.wstagner.com

Michael:

Yes, with NA the needle *can* be used on the palm if that is where a cord can be attacked and snapped. If you'd like to see a DVD, Walt Stagner taped his French procedure and can send you one. See for yourself! I think he charges $5 for his trouble. In fact, seeing this DVD is what helped get Eaton interested in NA.

http://www.wstagner.com

As far as the cord tissue being broken down and reabsorbed, I wish that it were so in all cases. Many testimonies her seem to indicate that's not always the case.

EATON: "<After Snapping,> the cord is softened and digested by the body's normal enzymes, and heals in a lengthened state. The cord is a normal structural layer which has become wider and shorter from the effects of Dupuytren's. It is not a tumor - it does not have to be removed, and when it is returned to it's proper length, it becomes hard to feel - just like it was before Dupuytren's affected it."

Though this sounds like wishful thinking, it probably *is* the case for those with non-aggressive cases. And unfortunately it appears to be the case that the aggressiveness of each of our own diseases has more to do with what can trigger it and reoccurrence rates. A long standing debate on this site has been whether or not surgery itself can trigger more Dups. I personally have a strong belief that *trauma* can trigger growth, so surgery would qualify. And so then too would *NA*. You have to pick your poison here, but personally I'll go with as little trauma as I can get.

I hope I answered your question (though a lot of it was *opinion*, and I have an *admitted* bias)

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