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nerve damage
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06/24/2005 23:01
Patty

not registered

06/24/2005 23:01
Patty

not registered

nerve damage

First of all, Steve, who is your doctor in Wisconsin. That is where I am.
Second, I did not mean to start a big argument over this. I just think, at this point, that if I go to someone like Dr. Eaton, who knows his craft better than anyone in this country, I should have better odds to not have nerve damage from NA.
When the PT guy said to me, he would probably see me again after I had surgery that will surly come up at some point, I thought, Is PT or OT required after the NA too?
I have two different problems here...one with the Dups, and in the same area, a problem with the tendon after the trigger finger operation. That is what we have been working on. But, I said to him the other day, wonder how much of this problem is the tendon, and how much the Dups. is keeping me from recovering from the tendon damage. He agreed with me.
My excersizes always bring me back, and with a vibrator on my hand, it is even better. But, it always comes back to a battle with the finger yet again.
I am in the thought, that , I would like to try Dr. Eaton, before I would have my hands cut up yet again.
This is the last thing I ever thought would be my problem in my life. Go Figure...
Thank you for all of the input. I will keep in touch about the progress, or lack of.
Good wishes to you all, and please don't get into arguments. We are all in here for the same thing, to help each other, with questions, answers, and results. Not all of this other stuff. Let's just keep it on the subject. Thanks,
Patty

06/24/2005 23:58
Tommy

not registered

06/24/2005 23:58
Tommy

not registered

experience

Patty wrote: "I just think, at this point, that if I go to someone like Dr. Eaton, who knows his craft better than anyone in this country, I should have better odds to not have nerve damage from NA".

That's why I flew from L.A. to Florida in February 05. It would have been easier to drive 400 miles to the Bay area where NA is available but at this stage no one in the U.S. is more experienced than Dr. Eaton.

06/25/2005 23:06
Tolucca

not registered

06/25/2005 23:06
Tolucca

not registered

Blind Spot

No Name,

My post criticized CHS for having a blind spot when it comes to NA. Currently, a huge issue for them with NA is that they ASSUME that NA would have a GREATER association with nerve injury than OS. They have absolutely no data to support this assumption. The data we <<do>> have shows just the opposite. True enough, this French data is open to criticism, but that in no way can be turned around to support the idea that NA has a higher rate of damage. That makes no logical sense whatsoever.

If you wish to dismiss all the French data, be my guest. My point is still that there is no data showing NA has a higher rate of nerve damage than OS. And yet, this is the assumption of many CHS. It is based on nothing but thin air. If you know of a study that can support their assumption, we should all benefit from it.

So, when the authorities we must trust with our health make insupportable statements based on nothing but assumption, this deserves to be criticized. The actual fact is that Eaton's track record with NA is quite nearly flawless at 1,000 procedures and counting. He does not "cherry pick" his cases, but is able to help about 90% of those who come to him. Only a fool would guarantee that NA never caused damage. Please don't ascribe to me what I have not said. You are right in this: Once Eaton's data on nerve damage is presented, my criticism of CHS blind spot will hold even more weight.

It is true that entrenched assumptions in many fields die hard. They die a little faster when they are questioned repeatedly. We know your position, so naturally from your view, I've contributed nothing. That, my friend, is a matter of perspective.

06/25/2005 23:20
No Name

not registered

06/25/2005 23:20
No Name

not registered

Information

Tolucca,

You missed the point to my posting. Your posting said very clearly that there was no damage with NA. You said this by saying very little - just by attacking CHS, which is a standard procedure on this site and these types of postings are misleading. That's just the truth.

My position is and has been for people to research all the options and do what is best. My CHS told me about NA before my operation and based my case, I elected OS. I have no problems with anyone who selects NA.

I do have problems with the "NA first and only" postings that are deposited on this site on a daily basis that are highly bias and always never offer any supporting data or documentation. Too often these postings are misleading.

In fact, I am one of the few contributors to the site who has posted information (links to studies) that others can access and use to determine what is best for them. And, for what is worth, I have posted information supportive of NA - so your implication that I am against NA is wrong.

Postings submitted to this forum that just present one-sided statements need to be challenged. As I have said, I have found good information here, but the information needs to be balanced, fair and objective if the intention is to influence others.

06/25/2005 23:25
Patty

not registered

06/25/2005 23:25
Patty

not registered

NA/surgery

I am doing my resurch. I am greatful for all of your posts. I do know, that the PT man said, he has patients that have had the regular surgery, and are doing just fine. But, if even with the cutting or the NA, the procedure must be done again.
My thinking is, if it has to be done again and again, and again....there should be less damage from scar tissue, and other problems with the NA. The train of history is, that it has to be done every three to five years. How much Scar Tissue can that hand take with the traditional surgery?
I will say again, when these things are published, most of the hand surgeons in this country will have to take notice, and learn. I am not up to spending the rest of my life having my hand cut up. I found that out with my back. I had a surgery on One Disc, and four years later, the Scar Tissue became my worst enemy. Then, another surgery. That is what happens.
I am reading your posts, and am greatful for your input.
Thanks, Patty

06/26/2005 23:29
Tolucca

not registered

06/26/2005 23:29
Tolucca

not registered

Bottom Line

No Name,

No honest unbiased reading of my original post would indicate that I implied there was Zero risk of nerve damage from NA. However, if it pleases the court, I'll pretend to recant:

NA can cause nerve damage.

However, when the facts are in, we will see less than half the risk posed by OS. Would you, after all you've read, deny this? If not, how come you realize this when most CHS don't?

06/26/2005 23:02
Michael

not registered

06/26/2005 23:02
Michael

not registered

Nerve damage

How do you know what "most CHS" think? And how do you know what the "facts" will be when they are in? I don't think nerve damage is a significant problem with either procedure. Comparisons are not significant either. Remember a fasciectomy is the procedure often used when a person is not suitable for NA. The degree of difficulty represented by the patient can be very different. The NA procedure is used on much less difficult situations than is the use of fasciectomies. So no comparison is completely valid.

06/26/2005 23:16
toM

not registered

06/26/2005 23:16
toM

not registered

Get a Second Opinion

No Name, if you peruse the posts from the past, you'll find there are many one sided posts by an individual using the name Gary followed by Sean that were markedly biased in favor of traditional surgery and openly hostile to NA. This person often resorted to insults and innuendos when he could not intimidate those that wanted to spread the word about NA.

I think those that support NA are more interested in letting others know of this procedure since many physicians either don't or are misinformed.

06/26/2005 23:30
JERRY 
06/26/2005 23:30
JERRY 
Get a Second Opinion

toM,

You are right on! There has not been 1 case of nerve damage reported to me or in fact nothing at all detrimental with the NA procedure. PLEASE: Enough is enough. Let's proceed and finally arrive at the conclusion that NA is the BEST procedure we have going for us at this time. Surgery is DEAD and should be buried along with those that still adhere to the scalpel method.

06/26/2005 23:15
Tolucca

not registered

06/26/2005 23:15
Tolucca

not registered

Get a Second Opinion

Michael, good questions:

The best source for any of us non-professionals on the question of "What do CHS think abut NA" comes from the last three years of posts on this Forum. I'm going to guess that I've seen between 25 and 50 posts reporting their surgeon's reaction to NA. I've emailed numerous posters, as well as talked with Walt Stagner, who filmed the original French CD that changed Eaton's mind on the procedure. The three top reactions are consistently reported to be:

1) The risk of nerve damage is too great because it is a "blind" procedure.

2) The rate of recurrence is so high that it is not worth the effort.

3) Don't know about NA.

No, mine is not a proper random sampling of all CHS worldwide, and it is my recollection of my years on the Forum, so yes, statically speaking it is open to criticism.

Secondly, the current best source in the World as to the rate of NA nerve damage when in the hands of a CHS is Eaton, with over 1,000 procedures. Feel free to call his office to confirm the assertions I am making: (561) 746-7686

1) He is taking all commers, turning away almost no one. Cases where NA is not appropriate are very low. Therefore his "experimental" group should not be significantly different (statistically) from the "control group" of all those who have OS. The only difference is the procedure.

2) His rate of nerve damage in 1,000 procedures is close to zero. No, I haven't run the math to show the statistical significance on this. But even though this comes from Florida, I don't think a Recount will be needed. This is fairly overwhelming data.

Now for the Legalese: There is a chance of Nerve Damage with NA. NA is not appropriate in all cases. Your rate of recurrence may be higher with NA than OS. Talk to your CHS. If he doesn't do NA, his opinion will mostly likely be similar to those listed above. If so, consider also talking to a CHS who does NA. You will have a better chance of getting a more experienced, informed opinion. OS is not dead, just avoidable in may cases.

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assumption   recurrence   significantly   generalisability   fasciectomies   studies   information   surgeon   surgery   procedures   aggressiveness   methodological   reported   published   insupportable   procedure   characteristics   non-professionals   practitioner   traditional