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Newbie with questions
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01/26/2005 23:33
Bob

not registered

01/26/2005 23:33
Bob

not registered

Newbie with questions

Discovered this web site yesterday and have spent some hours going through it. Have also read all the information on Dr.Eaton's site. To those of you who have posted here just to provide helpful information for others, thanks!

I'm a 73 year old, caucasian, male with a right hand ring finger that hangs downward a good 45 degrees, maybe 60, when the other fingers of the hand are fully extended. I have a pea-like nodule at the inner base of the finger (no pain) and a distinct, raised cord running from the base of the finger across most of the palm. This started 10-15 years ago with the cord in the palm and has progressed to the present state. My GP has said don't worry about it until you can't put your hand in your pocket. Well, I'm at the point where I have difficulty slipping my hand into my back, hip pocket. By the way, during the last two or three years I have attempted to retard the progression of the finger curvature by wearing a home made "torture device" (as I cal it), but I learn from Eaton's web site that this is a no-no. I asked my GP about this some time ago, and he said it could do no harm?!

I was very pleased to learn of Eaton and his NA work. So I'd like to ask a few questions. Hopefully, some of you will take a crack at a few of them.

Can anyone else shed any light on the pros and cons of "torture devices" to straighten the finger? I note that they are used after surgery and after NA procedures.

What's the average time interval between the first NA procedure and the need for a second treatment? I get the impression that it's just a few years.

Does Eaton's office charge for a pre-screening conversatin on the phone to attempt to ascertain one's condition and whether or not they can help him? A charge for this?

I gather that the procedure is covered by Medicare.(?)

Why do you suppose that hand surgeons have not adopted this technique? If NA really works, I find this very puzzling. Do medical conservatism and greed fully explain this?

Kevin, I went to your web site to read your theory. Interesting! Obviously, you have researched the topic. But you don't say anything about your credentials. Medical person? Simply an interested layman?

Again, thanks for your posts.

Bob







01/27/2005 23:08
Michael

not registered

01/27/2005 23:08
Michael

not registered

A few Answers


Bob,

I can answer a few of your questions. The progression of Dup's varies from person to person and from time to time, so I don't think an 'average time interval' of reoccurance is meaningful. In your case, given your age, and given that your Dup's has grown really slowly, you might never have to go back for a second treatment.

I don't know why NA isn't more widely accepted. I get the feeling that a lot of hand surgeons haven't even heard of it.

Regards, MML

01/27/2005 23:14
tommy

not registered

01/27/2005 23:14
tommy

not registered

Eaton

Bob,

I e-mailed Dr. Eaton some pictures of my hand and there was no charge. His office responded that I'm a candidate for the NA procedure and I have an appointment in a few weeks. I understand from others on the site that he does accept medicare.

01/27/2005 23:24
Bill H

not registered

01/27/2005 23:24
Bill H

not registered

NA - Other Facts

Bob,

I have doing research on NA and while I not have spoken to Dr. Eaton (it appears this web site has become a running ad for NA), I have learned that NA can lead to a much higher recurrance rate than surgery. This is never discussed and should be.

I had surgery three months ago on my right hand and things went well. The hand and fingers are straight and the post-opt recover went well.

The NA believers won't agree with this, but you have to ask if they are bisas. I find some good information on this site, but have learned to ignore the NA/Eaton postings.


01/27/2005 23:09
Anon

not registered

01/27/2005 23:09
Anon

not registered

Research Data Available

It will be interesting to see the data generated that
shows conclusiveely that NA patients suffer more frequent recurrance.
Does this study include any consideration of the ease and nearly pain free NA compared with splints and months of physical therapy ?

01/27/2005 23:04
Observer

not registered

01/27/2005 23:04
Observer

not registered

Newbie

That information is available on Dr. Badois' site:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f.badois-dupuytren/html/gbsommaire.html

01/27/2005 23:34
Anon

not registered

01/27/2005 23:34
Anon

not registered

From Dr. Badois~sq~ Site

This is a direct copy from the referenced site
"IS NEEDLE APONEVROTOMY AS EFFECTIVE AS SURGERY ?



A comparison of medical fasciotomy with surgical fasciectomy, reported in 1993 (Badois and Coll.), showed that short-term outcomes were comparable.

The five-year recurrence rate is high (>50%) with both procedures, however, needle fasciotomy can be repeated as often as needed, whereas start again surgical procedure is hazardous. "

01/27/2005 23:27
Sean 
01/27/2005 23:27
Sean 
NA

There have been several studies that have pointed out that the Badois information was scientifically flawed. Remember, they "cherry pick" who they will do NA. Whereas, surgery is done on whoever walks through the door.

Dr. Eaton, on his website, says that recurrance for NA is more frequent than for a limited fasciectomy. Which makes sense because recurrance is greater for a fasciotomy than a fasiectomy. NA is a fasiotomy.

It also makes sense because none of the diseased tissue is removed in a fasiotomy(or NA), so what is remaining can continue its growth.

This is a completely different discussion than whether it is better for a person to have more frequent procedures with NA vs. fewer (or no more) procedures with a limited fasciectomy. That is a personal decision. My surgeon said that he very seldom saw a person more than once.

01/28/2005 23:48
observer

not registered

01/28/2005 23:48
observer

not registered

Balance

Dear Sean,

Your surgeon seldom saw a person more then once? I don't believe that statement. DC reoccurs, whether it be with NA or surgery and surgery is so much more invasive and traumatic to the hand that for me NA is the only way to go.

We have read story after story of scaring, months and months of physio, and skin grafts, all relating to surgery. Yes, there are many surgeries that go well, but multiple surgies over the course of a life time can be devistating to the hand where as multiple NA's will not be.

Yes, I'm not surprised that there is a perception that Dr. Badois's patients were picked, we have already heard, and know - NA is not for everyone - as is the case with ANY medical procedure.

Please provide balance when posting.

observer

01/28/2005 23:23
Sean 
01/28/2005 23:23
Sean 
Newbie

Observer,
You say, "Please provide balance when posting."
Since you are brand new to this board, you might not realize that this site is unbalanced considerably, toward the very few who always are promoting NA. My approach is that all procedures have their place. There are thousands who have limited fasciectomies every year, yet on this worldwide forum, very very few end up on here with complaints. Those who do are those who probably have a very aggresive form of the disease.

I have no problem with people choosing NA, and I might in the future. I also have no problem with people choosing surgery. My results from a limited fasciectomy could not have been better. 85 degrees to 0 degrees, no scarring and zero recurrance thus far (three years).

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