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knee and shoulder pain
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09/28/2013 15:31
robinp 
09/28/2013 15:31
robinp 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

I read that frozen shoulder and DC were correlated and when I mentioned it to my doctor this week, he said he hadn't heard that, but not surprised either. I've had frozen shoulder twice - one time in each shoulder. Extremely painful and longlasting. I had an orthopedist treat the first one. He did manual manipulation under general anesthesia. Then months of physical therapy. It was a miserable time but I was faithful in my PT and now have full use of my arm and shoulder. The second time around in my other shoulder I knew immediately what it was. I had surgery on the rotator cuff because of a bone spur plus the manipulation. I couldn't get the arm moving after a month so had the manipulation done a second time. It took another 8 weeks of therapy to get it moving well. It's not at all pleasant. I hope that's not your diagnosis, but if it is, do some research and find out for yourself what seems best for you. It is similar to DC because it has to do with cords forming on the bursa and causing a 'frozen' condition. I felt the pain in my upper arm and elbow. Doctor called it referred pain.

09/28/2013 17:51
mikes 
09/28/2013 17:51
mikes 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

Frozen shoulder is <definitively> associated with DD. Fortunately, when I suggested the linkage to my doctor, and orthopedist (and later to my PT as well) they were well aware of the linkage. In my case, 3 months of 2-3X/week PT sessions, followed by several more months of at home exercises provided to me by my PT, resolved the frozen shoulder 100%. It was pretty awkward for a while though, putting on or taking off a shirt or jacket, a few other things, etc.

09/28/2013 19:56
nanshands 
09/28/2013 19:56
nanshands 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

Hi Cookie,

Somehow a Forum notification connected me to this thread. Wasn't sure how or why, just glad it did so I have the opportunity to respond. Though I cannot address much of your inquiry I am quite experienced in the area of shoulders. First, above all, there is a great deal of pain when sleeping with a frozen shoulder. The main reason being when you are standing, you typically stand in the proper anatomical position. Your arm is down and at rest unless, of course, you are doing something with it. But when you are sleeping you are rarely in the proper anatomical position. If you are on your back then gravity wants to pull your shoulder down or back; if it is frozen it doesn't want to go. If you are on your side then you naturally roll your shoulder forward. Again, if frozen, it doesn't like that. If you have a frozen shoulder trying to sleep in a comfortable position is very difficult, and can be when you feel the most pain. Try propping your hand and forearm with a thin pillow or towel underneath it. (Not your shoulder!). If on your side curl up with a pillow underneath your arm; try to not raise your shoulder towards your neck.

Now the best advice. Go on-line and begin frozen shoulder exercises cautiously. If no improvement, strongly consider an MRI with contrast. That is the only way to clearly diagnose a frozen shoulder.

My personal experience: 4 years ago when I suddenly could barely move my arm I went to the doctor. An MRI with contrast was done, and the clear diagnosis of a frozen shoulder was made. I began physical therapy. Physical therapy for a severe frozen shoulder is very painful, but extremely effective at avoiding surgery. My motto in life is try everything reasonable before doing surgery. Been there done that, way too many times.

Then two years ago, my other arm began to tighten up in a similar manner, but not as inhibiting. I thought it was muscle tightness, strain, another frozen shoulder, not sure. Tried to work it out with shoulder exercises, manipulation. Didn't work. Went to orthopedic doctor who did NOT do MRI, but diagnosed as a frozen shoulder, injected me with cortisone, started me on physical therapy. After two months still not better. Went back to same doctor. He insisted still that it was a frozen shoulder wanted to do more cortisone. I said, "No." Found another doctor, did the MRI with contrast. Lots of problem in the shoulder including torn rotator cuff. Had surgery this past May, 2013. During this time is when I noticed my first DD nodule in the right hand of the same operated upon shoulder. Throughout my recovery it has only gotten worse.

Conclusion from my perspective: If you continue to have problems get an MRI. Secondly, no question in my mind the 2 years of shoulder pain and restriction was the catalyst for the DD.

Hope this helps!

Nan

09/30/2013 19:13
cookie 
09/30/2013 19:13
cookie 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

I think there is snowball in hells chance of mri off doc! Nothing on xray predictably. Im gonna try nans postioning suggestions! Doc has refered me to a physio who has had extended training! Probably a waiting list. I will have to chase it im in agony. Shoulders like a cape of pain. Thanks guys!

09/30/2013 20:34
nanshands 
09/30/2013 20:34
nanshands 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

Hi Cookie,

The physical therapist your doctor sends you to might also be able to tell you if it is truly a frozen shoulder. They are often better at figuring those things out than the doctors. Unless, of course, you end up at an orthopedic doctor and get an MRI done.

If you did not injure your shoulder to your knowledge or feel any muscle weakness in the shoulder then perhaps a frozen shoulder is what you have. Especially if the shoulder feels very stiff and painful. Be patient it does take some time to work out a frozen shoulder.

Keep us posted! Thinking of you!

Nan

09/30/2013 22:01
cookie 
09/30/2013 22:01
cookie 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

Will do thanks Nan

10/03/2013 09:21
cookie 
10/03/2013 09:21
cookie 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

Thanks physiotherapy. So far physio has not been helpful with my shoulder but the fault is entirely mine. With hypermobility I have problems with proprioception and tiredness -I have real trouble following treatment and have been to embarassed, tired or short of time, to keep getting the physio to repeat themselves. Now I have a spinal lesion too, ill make sure I get everything written down and exercises printed out. A video to watch is helpful- but so far I haven't found anything on line like youtube to help. Can you suggest anything? Maybe I can video the physio doing the exercises or skype my sister in new zealand (who's a physio) to go through them again and stop me going wrong. Also the problem is chronic now and physios have so far stopped at this point of no improvement and refered me back to gp for further investigation! GP is very resitent to requesting any imaging, presumabley because she cant see a treatment that would help. Im supppsed to challange her and explain its causing me loads of problems but she says i can function with daily activities just take more pain killers and change the way you put your clothes on. Its just old age or arthritis! (Im 43)
I don't want to upset her she might strike me off. I'll see what the physio says Ive never had my knee looked at its one problem at a time!. Also I don't know if I have gone to the right person but she is closer than the MS physio and I would have thought more knowledgable for this type of problem. I intend to make the most of this referral again.
Thanks again.

10/03/2013 18:01
GaryBall 
10/03/2013 18:01
GaryBall 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

cookie:
Thanks physiotherapy. So far physio has not been helpful with my shoulder but the fault is entirely mine. With hypermobility I have problems with proprioception and tiredness -I have real trouble following treatment and have been to embarassed, tired or short of time, to keep getting the physio to repeat themselves. Now I have a spinal lesion too, ill make sure I get everything written down and exercises printed out. A video to watch is helpful- but so far I haven't found anything on line like youtube to help. Can you suggest anything? Maybe I can video the physio doing the exercises or skype my sister in new zealand (who's a physio) to go through them again and stop me going wrong. Also the problem is chronic now and physios have so far stopped at this point of no improvement and refered me back to gp for further investigation! GP is very resitent to requesting any imaging, presumabley because she cant see a treatment that would help. Im supppsed to challange her and explain its causing me loads of problems but she says i can function with daily activities just take more pain killers and change the way you put your clothes on. Its just old age or arthritis! (Im 43)
I don't want to upset her she might strike me off. I'll see what the physio says Ive never had my knee looked at its one problem at a time!. Also I don't know if I have gone to the right person but she is closer than the MS physio and I would have thought more knowledgable for this type of problem. I intend to make the most of this referral again.
Thanks again.


Cookie,

I also live in New Zealand .....I also have a number of what I believe to be associated ailments connected to DD......my experience is that it is a complete waste of time going to a GP and the main stream system.....our local chiropractor is outstanding at sorting out my issues.....So ....I would bin the GP and look for a good osteopath or chiropractor...

10/03/2013 18:57
cookie 
10/03/2013 18:57
cookie 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

Thanks Physiotherapy, thats exactly what my sister said- if it was just one session I could afford it! Plus I don't know one ive just moved to north east! I saw one in corwall who was recommended and dod all that bone cracking stuff even though id asked him not to! That sort of theatrics dont impress! Im a neuro surgical nurse! I'll ask the physio! do they treat knees?

10/22/2013 08:58
marcelmeister 
10/22/2013 08:58
marcelmeister 
Re: knee and shoulder pain

Knee and shoulder pain due to frozen shoulder can be extremely painful and long lasting. In this typical condition ligaments surrounding the joint get stiffened restricting the free movement of arm. I was wondering whether your physiotherapist suggested any follow up schedules of exercise programs after your round of treatments. Simple yet effective exercise steps are suggested so as to increase the mobility and decrease the prolonging pain. While I had joint pain I went on to treat in Physiotherapy Markham as they had physiotherapy done for few weeks and did advised me certain follow up exercises. If you have persisting pain get a detailed checkup of your ligaments and joints.

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