UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation |
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04/16/2008 05:19
hand Surgeonnot registered
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04/16/2008 05:19
hand Surgeonnot registered
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Re: UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation
Hi, I thought I would just add a note of caution to this. Radiotherapy is not a benign treatment. I have seen a couple of patients with post radiotherapy recurrence and I can tell you that there is a lot more diffuse scarring after the treatment which makes any subsequent treatment very difficult and the skin is of a different texture again adding to the difficulty of surgery.
Radiotherapy used to be used for all sorts of things in this country and we gradually removed it because of the dangers. So while one shot may not be too dangerous, several will. Radiotherapy of all sorts is designed to kill things, which is why we use it for Cancer.
In addition on a personal note why go for a dangerous treatment which takes a week against NA at a single visit with less risks?
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04/16/2008 05:41
Wolfgangnot registered
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04/16/2008 05:41
Wolfgangnot registered
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radiate or not?
Hi hand surgeon,
I think most radiotherapists will agree with you and not recommend repetitive treatment. But one treatment in the infant phase of the disease can postpone progression by decades. I now start getting a small cord, by far no contraction yet, 25 years after my initial small nodule had been treated with radiotherapy. That's the real benefit of radiotherapy. When my other hand started 5 years later, I tried to escape radiotherapy and had to have surgery in the mean time (wasn't aware of NA at that time).
The target of NA is an already bent finger. Radiotherapy is not very useful at this point anymore. Personally I also doubt the benefit of post-NA radiotherapy.
If you want to delay recurrence you probably need to use something like the technique that Moermans proposed: his segmental fasciectomy does not just break the cord nor does it remove the whole cord. Moermans only cuts out segments of it. That limits the amount of surgery and delays building up of a new cord. As the disease probably starts from just below the skin, the lowest recurrence seems to be after replacing the skin also. But that would be a relative large surgery.
NA most likely has higher recurrence than segmental fasciectomy but it can be repeated much easier and recovery is much faster. Therefore NA is definitely a very good option.
Did you have a look at the paragraph "Stages and therapies" on http://www.dupuytren-online.info/dupuytr..._therapies.html ? That showns in a table what I tried to write here.
Wolfgang
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04/16/2008 08:22
TrevB
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04/16/2008 08:22
TrevB
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Re: UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation
I've been against radiotherapy personally for about 3 years since Wolfgang first suggested that a trip to Germany (not possible due to mobility issues) might be the best option to treat my then single nodule. Now that my Dups has progressed (without contracture as yet) I am seriously thinking that radiotherapy might buy me precious time but then a post pops up calling it a dangerous treatment and reigniting all my previous fears.
I know surgery is dangerous as well but dangerous radiotherapy rings different bells with me.
You say treatments have been removed. Which treatments were discontinued due to the dangers? Isn't knowledge and equipment so much better these days that those abandoned treatments could be used today? I've read somewhere recently that 20% of radiotherapy cases for Dups don't work so I think that's a known risk.
You can find several UK nuclear medicine departments on the web, how does the radiation used in those compare with the radiation used for Dups? Isn't nuclear medicine similarly dangerous although clearly available?
At the end of the day we all want to avoid surgery, NA (if suitable) is one step away whereas radiothereapy is possibly two steps away?
I found this quite helpful, particularly the side effects and dose. I don't know how accurate it all is but it might be helpful for any discussion with a doctor? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_therapy
Edited at 04/16/08 12:15
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04/16/2008 09:17
Wolfgangnot registered
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04/16/2008 09:17
Wolfgangnot registered
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Re: UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation
Just a caveat: don't mix radiotherapy treating cancer with Dupuytren treatment. Dupuytren treatment typically uses lower energies and lower doses. The higher dose may be justified for cancer, for Dupuytren's the dose should be as low as possiblee to minimize skin damage. Studies to reduce the total dose have been on-going. It looks like that 20 Gy do about the same job as 30 Gy, at least the benefit of the additional 10 Gy is not very big. The next trial will probably be in the 15 Gy range. Cancer treatments can go beyond 50 Gy.
Wolfgang
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04/16/2008 09:35
TrevB
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04/16/2008 09:35
TrevB
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Re: UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation
Well I don't know, it says on the site above "while lymphoma tumors are treated with 20 to 40 Gy." which seems to suggest 20Gy minimum compared to 30Gy for Dups (although you say that could be reduced in future)? I'm not arguing, just trying make sense of the information. Radiation is radiation isn't it, whatever it's used for?
Edited at 04/16/08 12:45
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04/16/2008 10:45
Wolfgangnot registered
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04/16/2008 10:45
Wolfgangnot registered
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Re: UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation
Hi, TrevB: You are right, I have seen 60+ Gy elsewhere and had that in mind. Personally I think that radiotherapy is a risk but surgery is also a risk. You need to understand involved risks and make your own decision. I don't regret having had radiotherapy 25 years ago, rather I am happy I had it. But I also advocate minimizing the risk, and for radiotherapy that means minimizing the exposure.
In your case, with an already bent finger, it may be too late for radiotherapy for that finger. NA might be a good choice. But if you feel small nodules growing on other fingers you might consider radiotherapy.
Wolfgang
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04/16/2008 12:45
TrevB
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04/16/2008 12:45
TrevB
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Re: UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation
Hi Wolfgang
I perhaps didn't make myself clear somewhere along the line. I've no contracture as yet but when you suggested radiotherapy about 3 years ago I had one small nodule in the palm in line with my ring finger. Like most people I suppose I assumed that to be a cyst of some sort. Since then I've got 3 flattish looking nodules and what looks like the start of a cord in the palm (about 2cm) in line with my ring finger. I've also got the early start of similar in line with my little finger and barely noticable nodules in line with my other finger. All in all it looks like potential grief over the horizon. I still have full use of my hand at the moment and thought that this is perhaps the last opportunity I'd get to try and delay or avoid some more drastic treatment, hence my sudden interest in this topic.
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04/16/2008 21:55
Ivy
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04/16/2008 21:55
Ivy
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Re: UK treatment of Dupytrens using radiation
Hello, I too am interested in radiation treatment since I was just diagnosed yesterday.... and still have full movement I type for a living so I want to keep my mobility as long as I can. I am looking for treatment in the US does anyone know of any treatment centers in the US? particularly near KC?
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04/17/2008 05:29
TrevB
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04/17/2008 05:29
TrevB
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Clinics
Quote:
Hello, I too am interested in radiation treatment since I was just diagnosed yesterday.... and still have full movement I type for a living so I want to keep my mobility as long as I can. I am looking for treatment in the US does anyone know of any treatment centers in the US? particularly near KC?
List of clinics here Ivy. http://www.dupuytren-online.info/radiotherapy_clinics.html Not too many anywhere really.
Edited at 04/17/08 10:32
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04/17/2008 07:47
newman
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04/17/2008 07:47
newman
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Radiotherapy best on nodules.
Hi Ivy.Australia Calling. I would just point out that radiotherapy works best on nodules. Although I noted " Isslieb"a regisiterd user in the US. reported a good result on cords. Remember we are all different and there is no cure. Regards.
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